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Hydraulic Clutch Questions

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Kg6sof, May 16, 2020.

  1. May 16, 2020
    Kg6sof

    Kg6sof New Member

    Upland, Ca
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    Just picked up a 68 CJ-5 and after 15mile shake down road test im working on a list of needs and wants to get the jeep ready for short road drives to local trails one of the items on my list is the clutch, this thing is stiff, i learned to drive stick in a old dodge truck with a np435 and this is right up there but my left leg is not up to it lol.
    My question is can the old brake master be used with a slave cylinder? This jeep has had power brakes added and they left stock master in frame mount location caped off, I figured i could easily connect clutch peddle to the old brake linkage to use that master but didnt know if it would be to much or to little for a clutch slave.
    Thanks,Steve
     
  2. May 16, 2020
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor

    DC
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    What you’ll want are hanging pedals and an appropriate size master cylinder bore.
     
  3. May 16, 2020
    Kg6sof

    Kg6sof New Member

    Upland, Ca
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    Dont need hanging pedals, with the power brake install on this jeep and the long tube headers another master cylinder on the firewall wont be a good fit, thats why im asking about the old brake master on the frame rail.
     
  4. May 16, 2020
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    Anything's possible. You'll have to ascertain the bore and stroke of the master and cross reference to an appropriate slave. Then there's the slave attachment and proper ratio on the clutch fork to get enough throw. Most would opt for an AA chain controller to get a softer pedal with better ratio .
     
    Tom_Hartz likes this.
  5. May 17, 2020
    supertrooper

    supertrooper Member

    moreno valley, ca
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    Nov 12, 2007
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    It took me a lot of trial and error to to get my hydro clutch working. I went with hanging pedals, i havnt seen any hydro setups with frame mounted pedals. You need to get the correct ratios for the pedal/master cyl linkage, the throwout dearing arm ratio and slave location to get the correct travel, master/slave bore, ect. Several guys on here have the AA chain linkage kit and they seem to work well and might be a better place to start.
     
    71CJ54WD likes this.
  6. May 17, 2020
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    I don't know that it'll work, but might be cool to try.
     
  7. May 17, 2020
    Sierra Bum

    Sierra Bum Member

    The High Sierra
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    Oct 23, 2017
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    I also would suggest the AA chain kit. Sounds like the main reason you're wanting to change things is a hard to push clutch pedal. This kit will help. I have one of these AA kits in my 68 CJ5, and they are pretty simple, durable and reliable. Kept well lubricated, it is a good upgrade.

    Additionally: I have a pretty unorthodox/unusual set up now. I built swing pedals on my rig and adapted the AA chain kit to work with a swing pedal and clutch cable off the firewall. My main goal was to get my pedals off the frame rail, which I think is a terrible place for them in a wheeling/trail rig. I did this instead of a hydraulic clutch mostly because I wanted to see if I could get it to work well (it does), and because I wanted to explore a mechanical [swing pedal] alternative to hydraulic. It took some thinking, basic fab work and adjusting things, but in the end its strong, simple and proven reliable on the trails.
     
    Rich M. likes this.
  8. May 17, 2020
    Sierra Bum

    Sierra Bum Member

    The High Sierra
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  9. May 17, 2020
    AKCJ

    AKCJ Active Member

    Fairbanks, Alaska
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    Lubricating the original system makes a big difference. It takes some time to grease the jackshaft - I added a grease zerk to mine so now it’s quick and easy.
    Whenever the pedal gets stiff I know it’s time to grease again.
     
  10. May 17, 2020
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    That helps alot. Even with the aa chain setup you still need to grease the pivot shaft
     
  11. May 17, 2020
    Kg6sof

    Kg6sof New Member

    Upland, Ca
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    I have looked at that thread and that's what started me thinking about just using the master that's on the frame, plan was to use it with a pull style slave, either the wilwood or speedway. I layed down under the jeep today to start planning for brackets and realized that i have a drum brake master on the frame. Drum masters have a restrictor built in to keep line pressure, disk masters dont. It would work but would slow the slaves speed to release the clutch, most Hyundai's with manuals do this and it helps to avoid stalls from dropping the clutch but average clutch life is 40k miles, removing the restrictor is like jumping to a stage 2 clutch and you get 80k+ life. So new plan...lol remove all un-needed parts, build new mount for basic clutch master and mount for pull style slave. Ordering parts tonight so will update when i have them in hand to start making brackets.
     
  12. May 17, 2020
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

    Show low az
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    I have a cj 3b frame someone put a second stock master cylinder on the outside of he frame rail next to the stock one. It worked well befor the line was taken offf for another project.
    I can put up pics tomarrow.
     
  13. May 19, 2020
    Kg6sof

    Kg6sof New Member

    Upland, Ca
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    Thanks Cowboy. Yesterday I pulled all the linkage down, removed the stock master and master bracket.. had to use the high lift Jack to raise the body to get a bolt out of the master bracket that was in the top of the frame rail. I will modify the old bracket for the clutch cylinder when it gets here, in my mind it will work in stock location... Will see when i have all the parts. I ordered the Wilwood pull slave, was going to order the speedway unit to save a few dollars but it doesn't come with the heim joint end of the sphere washer so after adding these parts price was same. I'm taking pics as i go so will post when i put it all together. I will be installing a hydraulic parking brake at same time since the transfer case brake is long gone on this Jeep.
     
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  14. May 19, 2020
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor

    DC
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    Now you're talking - using an actual clutch master makes this project much more realistic. Be sure you got the right bore on that master though.
     
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  15. May 19, 2020
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

    Show low az
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    im not sure what the po did for a slave, bit ot worked and was on the pass side so makes room for pto winch. And this was on a flatty frame too.
     
  16. May 21, 2020
    Kg6sof

    Kg6sof New Member

    Upland, Ca
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    Original brake master and pedal setup
    the original bracket
    new clutch master
    Just needs line and testing
     
    AKCJ, Steamboat Willys and Rich M. like this.
  17. May 25, 2020
    Kg6sof

    Kg6sof New Member

    Upland, Ca
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    Got a line connected and tested, working but not enough stroke. Online it listed recommended master as a 3/4 bore and i had one on hand so that's what i used. Just not allowing the slave to do it's full stroke and not moving clutch arm enough. I ordered a willwood 260-6766 1in bore unit and just waiting for it to arrive. The 260-6766 is all metal and 1in bore should increase the slave movement with minor increase in clutch force, when i tested current setup i wanted the pedal little stiffer as it took very little pressure so thats a good thing. Will update when new master is installed
     
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