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Cj5 Advice, My Blank Slate With Only Potential From Here.

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Squirrelly CJ 5, Apr 23, 2020.

  1. Apr 23, 2020
    gibson-d@sbcglobal.net

    gibson-d@sbcglobal.net Member

    Houston, TX
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
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    93
    YJ axles aren't an upgrade! Front D30 has driver's side drop and axle disconnect (no locking hubs), D35 is iffy vs AMC 20. Jeep CJ D44 better. Also axle bolt pattern is 5 on 4 1/2 meaning new wheels. Stick to '79 and earlier CJ's. '71 thru '75 have 3:76 ratio gears, '76 thru '85 3:54 ratio. 3:54 lowest for D30 without carrier change. 3:73 lowest on D44 without carrier change. Just things to think about.
     
  2. Apr 23, 2020
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Silver Hill,...
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    Well..... So much for " Seat Time " ?
    Start a build Thread , like the others have mentioned.
    Good Luck.
     
  3. Apr 23, 2020
    fhoehle

    fhoehle Sponsor

    Harford Township, PA
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    Apr 11, 2012
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    I will say that you work fast!
     
  4. Apr 23, 2020
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    Welcome from Ga.
     
    Rick Whitson likes this.
  5. Apr 23, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Jul 18, 2013
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    5,593
    i referenced JY (junkyard) axles, not YJ axles....
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  6. Apr 23, 2020
    Lilbuff63

    Lilbuff63 Member 2022 Sponsor

    Sonoma County Ca
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    Jan 12, 2014
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    Exactly this! If you feel like you need to do more later at least you have gotten a good start cleaning things up. Especially if your funds are limited! The drivetrain you have now, if rebuilt/maintained, is plenty capable even on more difficult trails. Doing anything other than stock is a big commitment so just keep that in mind. It took me 7 years to get my Jeep back on the road.... and only three days to tear it down to the frame.
     
  7. Apr 24, 2020
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    I live South of...
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    Dec 2, 2014
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    Welcome from Michigan, , The guys here can answer any question you may have, and can help you get it going. Good Luck.
     
  8. Apr 24, 2020
    Squirrelly CJ 5

    Squirrelly CJ 5 New Member

    NW Connecticut
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2020
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    I took the body off over the weekend and all the prep work happened a few weeks before when I had some time off. I'm not that fast...
    :cry::bananatool:
     
  9. Apr 24, 2020
    Squirrelly CJ 5

    Squirrelly CJ 5 New Member

    NW Connecticut
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    Apr 23, 2020
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    Oooh. I was confused reading that. Thought it was a typo as well
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  10. Apr 24, 2020
    Squirrelly CJ 5

    Squirrelly CJ 5 New Member

    NW Connecticut
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    Apr 23, 2020
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    :bash::drool;Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and advice.

    How much of a difference does the axle gearing make? I would like to be able to creep along like you can in the stock first gear in there.

    I remember as a kid letting my 56' idle and I would get out and steer it while walking....
     
  11. Apr 24, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    I'm a believer in staging improvements if you don't have a full-time shop and can focus on the one project for the time it needs to be completed. if you have a project that's going to be in pieces for a long time, life can often interfere. Marriage, home, job, kids, health ... lots of unknowns that can interfere with a long time horizon. Plus it's hard to maintain enthusiasm for a project that's been in pieces for years.

    My suggestion would be to fix the frame and body so you are happy with its condition. Removing, repairing and replacing the mechanical components of a Jeep is quite easy and manageable for the home mechanic. Looking at the back end of that frame, I'd make it run and drive with a solid frame first. Once you can drive it around, you can better assess the drive train condition. An engine will burn oil for many miles before it quits altogether ... get some anti-foulers and drive it.

    Note that the F134 has a lot of torque but runs out of power quickly. The loooong stroke means that the torque peaks low, which makes it feel strong but kills top end power. Naively you'd think you can change the axle ratio and get more top speed, but the engine probably does not have enough power at any speed to do more than strain to reach highway speed. Why would you want new axles? That would seem to be way down on the list.

    The bodies on these rot away much faster than the frame, so I'd first look around for a replacement frame or a rolling chassis. That rear cross-member looks pretty bad from here. The body looks worse, and if you plan to make your repair panels, that's going to be a big job. You can do it with the proper skills, and a Jeep does not have a lot of compound curves to test your metal-working prowess. If this Jeep did not have the sentimental attachment that it does, I would suggest looking around for something better to start with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  12. Apr 24, 2020
    Squirrelly CJ 5

    Squirrelly CJ 5 New Member

    NW Connecticut
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    Apr 23, 2020
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    I agree for enthusiasms sake that I shouldn't bite too much off... But I'm nervous that the Ol f134 won't be use able without machining.

    I need to balance my scarce resources of time and money. I can't drop that money on something that won't be worthwhile.

    This Ol jeep is vury vury tired and that engine will definitely need a rebuild at minimum. I want her road worthy.

    Do the people here with the f134s who also have other engines to compare with think the f134 will be worth the long term effort??
     
  13. Apr 24, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Does it run now? What's the compression, wet and dry? Oil pressure?

    The whole thing looks bad from here - not a lot there. A replacement body in a crate is about $3K. You can buy a much better Jeep for that much.

    If you are concerned about time and money, are you sure this is the project you want?
     
  14. Apr 24, 2020
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sheboygan
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    that 134 will run forever, its simple to maintain, and really, all you need in a jeep.
    its whats there, its whats mated to the transmission that's you have on hand.
    cash strapped, money is better spent fixing whats there versus falling down a rabbit hole of "upgrades".

    its a nice tractor style motor that seems best suited for your putting around the yard, doing chores and stuff. its not a highway vehicle by any stretch of the imagination.

    if you are doing the rebuild, kits are crazy expensive, (1500.00). so id do some of the above tests to see whats really wrong with it before you get too far ahead of yourself.
     
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  15. Apr 24, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Some of us love them, some of us can’t swap them out fast enough.

    If you respect that it’s an engine design that’s 100 years old, it will do what you need it to do. It’s a tractor engine in a utility vehicle, not a car engine in a car. If you accept that and don’t expect more, you’ll be tickled pink with it.

    OTOH, if you expect it to be a highway cruiser and trouble-free daily driver for years to come, you might be disappointed.

    I’ve used mine extremely hard over the past 20+ years. It’s been a test bed for some crazy ideas, it’s driven me all over the east coast, and it still fires right up no matter how long it sits. It’s done me well, but it has required a few light rebuilds along the way.

    That being said, I think I’m finally over it. I’m tired of the huge disparity between weight and horsepower. The never ending leaks. The inability to hold speeds uphill. Wondering how long until it needs rings again. The engine is what is keeping me from making that Jeep street legal again. It’s heartbreaking, because it’s served me well, but society has moved on, and holding up traffic nowadays is no longer just a nuisance, it’s dangerous.

    If the most you ever plan on doing is cruising around on back roads with little elevation gain, it’ll be great.


    And yes, gearing is very important. “Power, or speed, but not both” is the old quote about gearing, and with an underpowered engine, you can’t have speed either, so keep the gearing in the 4.88-5.38 range. If you want to try to go faster, pick up an overdrive unit.
     
    Squirrelly CJ 5 likes this.
  16. Apr 24, 2020
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
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    942
    It given a fresh canvas to start a project, I would keep it pretty basic. I’d personally do the geo disks front and rear but keep the single master. I hate drums.

    I’d keep the Ross system unless yours is completely shot. I changed to manual saginaw and dual master, and while it steers really well, not sure I’d do either again. A good Ross does the job fine.

    Leave axles alone. That being said, the one axle I’d upgrade to is a NTD30, but expect that project to creep to $1500+

    An F134 that needs a rebuild will have your mind wandering. They are neat simple motors. It you care about originality, try and keep it. If you don’t, and want a more daily driver end result, I’d toss a more modern 4 cyl in there. I love the T90 and S18 in general, so I’d def keep both. I can say having a diesel in a little rig like these is awesome. Keeps the same vibe.
     
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  17. Apr 24, 2020
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2022 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    It all depends on what your goals for the jeep are. Do you live on country back roads where you can drive 55 (50 really) and putt around enjoying the nice weather? Do you want to take it off road mostly? If the answer is yes to either if those questions, you'll be fine with the f-head.

    If you want to drive on the highway going 65-70, then you're probably better off with an engine swap. The 4.3 v6 is pretty common, as is swapping a newer 225 dauntless or 231 buick v6.

    The moment I started looking at engine swaps was when I moved to a house off of a 60mph rural highway. I bought a replacement v6 in 2012 and made the mistake of selling the f-head and drivetrain, because I could "easily swap" all of the parts. Needless to say, I'm hoping to get my v6 engine from the rebuilder this week, and it'll probably be another year until my jeep is back on the road. Project creep is real.
     
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  18. Apr 26, 2020
    Squirrelly CJ 5

    Squirrelly CJ 5 New Member

    NW Connecticut
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2020
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    Between the advice here and from my brother I think I have a game plan for moving forward.

    I will continue to tear down to the frame so I can repair and strengthen where needed. Paint to protect.

    I will pull the head off the f134 and inspect cylinders. If these check out I will go through the whole engine, starting with determining why so much oil pours into the cylinders. If the engine looks usable after a teardown I will rebuild.

    This may change as I may soon have access to an engine from a family member who may be able to hook me up with a 198 or a 225 dauntless. I may not be able to resist if these are presented on a platter.

    Im waiting for front axle because my brother plans on swapping a front axle into his and I can have his. It's a dana27A? Has disc brakes. For now I will drain and replace oil in current axles. No leaks.

    For brakes, all new plumbing. Fix what I have. If something is majorly wrong I will probably upgrade at that point. Upgrade to disc brakes eventually.

    Inspect transmission and transfer case and if they seem good just clean and put back together with nice new oil.

    My brother has me pretty convinced for going right to powered steering. Mainly for ease of slow speed turns.

    Lots of body work.....lots.

    I'm sure I forgot something that we went over. But that's the overall game plan for now.

    Get it driving, gain enthusiasm, and try very hard to break something while on my property.

    Do upgrades as I see fit to make road worthy.
     
  19. Apr 26, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    4,170
    I'm looking at this post late, but I see some potential mis-information being posted. If you do indeed have a '65 with an F134, you should have 4.27 ratio axles, and a T90c with the lower 1st gear, both a nice combination that works well for driving, as long as you don't use the interstate. This combination will get you up to 65 mph+ on flat ground.
    You also may have 10" brakes which are more than adequate if they are working properly. Pull a front drum and see if you have 9" or 10". 9" brakes need to be upgraded to something safer, but the 10" will do fine. Front discs are not necessarily needed if you have 10". Power steering is not really needed if you keep the stock diameter steering wheel and keep tire diameter 30" or under. This tire recommendation applies for the F134 power too.
    Clean up your chassis and tub, but you might already have a good foundation for a Jeep build with the components you already have.
    -Donny
     
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