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Power Steering Issues

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by bigjohn, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Jan 21, 2019
    bigjohn

    bigjohn Active Member

    Kelso Wa
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,054
    Well I was farting around in the barn hunting for my elusive power steering leak, cycling the steering lock to lock when it occurred to me it didn't seem to be steering all the way to the left. I gave the gas a touch while putting pressure on the steering wheel and instantly lost power steering. So today I installed a power steering pump, cycled it lock to lock to bleed air bubbles and all was fine, but still only went about half a turn to the left. So I shut her down and turned the tires and there was a spot in the cycle just to the left of center it wouldn't turn anymore. If I bumped it, the tires would turn all the way. So I did that a few times, fired it back up and sure enough, no power steering again.

    A little background, I had this variable ratio 3.25 turn gear built at Woodys Offroad in Vancouver WA about 6 years ago. We had similar issues then. He wouldn't work on it again until I installed a new steering pump and lines first. After that, and three tries later, the steering worked for 6 years.

    I just installed a new Borgeson intermediate shaft last spring, the axle and all components including ball joints have a few years of sporadic use on them. I've cycled it side to side dozens of times and see nothing externally binding or touching. If I put my hand on the steering gear while turning the tire, I can feel the point of binding.

    I called Woodys to see what they thought. He wants me to trailer the Jeep down to have their tech take a look. Then Ill need to bring the gear back down for repair, for which Im not sure Ill get stuck with the bill or not. Anyone have input on the inner workings of a Saginaw steering gear?

    PS this is a 75 CJ5 with a 258 and converted power steering like 9 years ago if I recall.
     
  2. Jan 21, 2019
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Are you doing this cycling with the front tires off the ground? If not, does the issue happen if they are off the ground? What about with the tires off and the engine off?

    Just trying to seperate if it's a hydraulic/valving issue, or a mechanical issue.
     
  3. Jan 21, 2019
    bigjohn

    bigjohn Active Member

    Kelso Wa
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,054
    When I bled it the tires were on the ground. I then shut it off and put the front in the air on jack stands and cycled it to try and isolate the issue. If I kind of slam the tires to the left, it pops past the hangup spot. But now there is no PS. Haven't tried with it running and off the ground to see what it does.
     
  4. Jan 22, 2019
    bigjohn

    bigjohn Active Member

    Kelso Wa
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,054
    One more note. I dropped the pitman arm and cycled the steering wheel lock to lock with the motor off. It hung up in the same spot but seemed to pop free. I'm still only getting about 2.75 turns. I have not payed attention in awhile but I recall it was a variable ratio around 3.25 turn gear. Not the quick ratio and I swapped a 4.25 turn gear out for this one 6 years ago.

    Still zero power steering though. I can feel flow in the pressure line, but the return line is kind of sporadic when turning the wheel with the motor on.
     
  5. Jan 22, 2019
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Just to take it out of the equation... make certain this isn't an external issue; watch the u-joints in the steering shaft as they turn to make sure they aren't somehow binding.

    I think my next step would be to pull the box and see if it does the same thing on the bench. If it does, I'd be dropping it back on Woody's doorstep with a note that says, "You didn't fix the problem," or finding someone else to rebuild the box.

    Sounds to me like something is binding or catching in the box. The fact that the power aspect quit makes me think it's in the valve portion of the box, but the fact that it stops at one spot within several wheel rotations points toward something within the worm assembly or something jammed in the sector gears... unless it's two seperate issues.

    Good luck man. That's a hard one to diagnose without being there. I definitely wouldn't try to drive it until you get it figured out.

    Do you have another box you could swap in just to rule out external variables?
     
  6. Jan 22, 2019
    bigjohn

    bigjohn Active Member

    Kelso Wa
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,054
    Thank you very much for the reply. No, i used my old 4.25 turn as a core. I think i will trailor the jeep down to them so they can see what it's doing. Then I'll remove the box and drop it if with them. I should have got the psc box back then. Holy hell their prices have jumped since then. Im just concerned that it took 3 tries with that gear to work, each of those meant a pita removal and installation for me. I really don't want to go down that road again.

    Also the u Joints on the shaft are in phase, no clearance issues.
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  7. Jan 30, 2019
    bigjohn

    bigjohn Active Member

    Kelso Wa
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,054
    Well here is the follow up. I trailered the Jeep to Vancouver to let the guys see what it was doing, or rather not doing. I dropped the gear there and left it with them. They were pretty vague about the issue but the shop fella said the balls were out of position and the plug had blown. He said it was likely an assembly error. $58 later and I was down the road. The brand new pump was full of metal shavings so I called the FLAPS I bought it from and the guy let me bring it in for exchange. Once the lines were blown out and everything was together I have power steering again! And the full 3.5 turns at that!

    On a side note, does anyone have thoughts on an inline filter on the return line? That was one of the stipulations noted on the invoice from the steering gear shop, install filter and clean shavings from the steering pump.
     
    Bowbender and ITLKSEZ like this.
  8. Jan 30, 2019
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    I did put something better than the small inline filter. I do buy at a hydrolic shop a filter adapter and hydrolic filter. Been there for 6 years and never had any issus since. Oil look like brand new.

    also you can see the oil cooler in strapped to the shell, it for power steering use, since i run the axle with a all time lock gear carrier it will get harder on the ps pump and bring temp very high (i was burning pump) now i run a ram assist along the cooler and filter.

    35836918_10155268648706621_4013171167404752896_n.jpg
     
  9. Jan 30, 2019
    roadhog304

    roadhog304 Member

    Leon Kansas
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    291
    Yes you can install a filter on the return line look for magnefine power steering filters on ebay.
     
    bigjohn likes this.
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