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Saginaw Power Steering Conversion Drag Link

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by chipdom, May 17, 2018.

  1. May 17, 2018
    chipdom

    chipdom Member

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    1965 CJ5 mostly original with a dauntless V6. I am in the process of a power steering conversion and have looked at too many sites and threads. I purchased the 3 piece power steering brackets from jeepsterguru.com, very expensive but for me well worth it. The late 60s early 70s GM pump with the banjo reservoir fits perfect even with my HEI upgrade; and matches the aluminum alternator bracket. I purchased a 4 turn 4 bolt power steering gear box from a 1980s CJ7 with brackets and pitman arm which I will try to retrofit if I can, or just fabricate a bracket. I think I have the steering column figured out using the original with Borgeson sector shaft and parts. The hoses should be easily done compared to the rest. What I am struggling with is the pitman arm to drag link to tie rods. Can I use what is original, or do I need different parts?
    Thanks in advance to any and all assistance in this endeavor.
     
  2. May 18, 2018
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    You need to convert to a one piece tie rod, and either use the right side tie rod end that has a hole for the drag link, or find a two hole knuckle for the passenger side. Either way the drag link will be a custom length.
     
  3. May 19, 2018
    chipdom

    chipdom Member

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  4. May 21, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

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    Without pics, I can't tell. Unless you swap to a two-hole knuckle, you'd need the special passenger TRE with the hole in it to run Y-steering like a Wrangler. Call Herm, he'll tell ya whether he sells the special TRE or not. He prolly does or knows where to get one.

    I swapped to a D30 at the same time I did his Ford style steering conversion. So I got a regular length 79 tie rod, with regular TREs, and had him make me a custom length drag link.
     
  5. May 21, 2018
    Muzikp

    Muzikp Active Member

    Sacramento Ca.
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  6. May 21, 2018
    chipdom

    chipdom Member

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    I have a dana 27 with disk brakes and one hole knuckle. I contemplated making the tie rod from a later model cj5 and deepening the threads and cutting it, but as you all know who have done this there is a lot to do for this conversion so I am going to order herms kit which seems to be a thicker material. The cost savings to make it myself plus the time is not worth it to me at this point. I found much more info on this when I stumbled on a two hole knuckle but I don't think I need to go that far as I do not plan on doing any heavy duty off roading. Also I am not sure if there is a difference in disk or drum knuckles, search for sale mostly specified drum brakes. I just want a better steering that does not jump sideways on road bumps and pot holes. If i am going to replace the ross system I ill bite the bullet and go power vs manual. Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
     
  7. May 22, 2018
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    Get everything set up where you want it then measure for the length you need. Each one of these conversions are slightly different so rarely are two exactly the same.
     
  8. Jul 19, 2018
    chipdom

    chipdom Member

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    I have the pump and gear mounted and the hoses connected and bled. The one piece tie rod with drag link from Herm seems to be good and should be an easy install. There is a straight line from the gear splined end below the grill mount cross member and above the engine mount cross member to the steering shaft. My last major obstacle is to cut the column and attach the 3/4" double d shaft u-joint. I know I have to file and grind the shaft to fit. What is the best way to remove the ross box, bell crank, and steering column? And best way to mount the lower part of the column, since the ross box is the prior support.
    Thanks
     
  9. Jul 20, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    The easiest route is to find a Postal Jeep column, or a column from an intermetiate CJ5. These end near the firewall under the floor and there is a lower bracket that mounts the bottom of the column to the lower firewall. These also have a u-joint connecting the column to a shaft leading to the steering box, but the intermediste shaft usually needs to be shortened because of the wheel base difference. Like mentioned above, every conversion is a little different due to different methods of mounting and routing.
    Cutting the Ross box shaft is the most difficult method because you then need to fabricate a lower bearing carrier, as well as shaping the shaft to properly fit a u-joint. The intermediate Jeeps column is nearly a bolt-in.
    The easiest way to remove the Ross box is to remove the drag link from the pitman arm, remove the floor plates, and wrestle the assembly up through the floor (after unbolting the box from the frame rail).
    -Donny
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
  10. Jul 20, 2018
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    I used a postal column and made this piece to attach it to the floor. It's just a piece of heavy gauge sheetmetal made to fit the existing bolt holes in the floor, and a short piece of 1 1/2" ID exhaust pipe welded to it.
    Be sure your shaft between the column and box has a slipjoint in it, both for safety and to allow for movement between the body & frame.
     
  11. Jul 24, 2018
    chipdom

    chipdom Member

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    I ordered a bearing to fit the column id column and od shaft as close as I could find. I am planning to install with set screws inside the column, and fabricate a mount inside the engine bay side of firewall similar to cooljeepguy but reversed. But I do not understand the slipjoint.
     
  12. Jul 24, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    I'm not sure setscrews are going to hold a bearing at the base of the column as the column is basically sheetmetal. A clamp might work better. From experience, a column from an intermediate ('72-'75) or postal Jeep is the recommended way to go. Everything bolts in with stock parts, and almost no fabricating required.
    The slip joint referred to is used for the section of column from the u-joint at the firewall to the joint at the steering box. Again, a stock slip joint section of column from an intermediate CJ is a bolt-in with no fabrication. The slip joint is made up of two sections of column, one slightly larger than the other, where one slides in the other (telescoping). This makes for easy minimal adjustments in length, and it was mainly used as a saftey feature making the column collapse in the event of a wreck so the column isn't driven rearward and into the driver.
    -Donny
     
  13. Aug 6, 2018
    chipdom

    chipdom Member

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    I see what you mean about the sheetmetal column and the set screws. I have everything apart and since I had already purchased the DD intermediate shaft and U joints I want to use them with the original column. I plan on using the bottom flange which was attached to the ross box on the floor and cut the top. I will make plates, one to hold the bearing in and space the hole on the inside and one to sandwich the firewall on the outside (engine compartment). I will cut the steering shaft to length and grind and file it to fit the DD U joint. It seems to me this will work. Now my next major obstacle is the horn. Can anyone think of a way the wire can go through the shaft, come out the U joint and wrap around the intermediate shaft without becoming damaged. I have seen coiled wires like a spring. but am not sure it could work. I know it is only 2 turns each way and only a momentary switch so I cant see any damage if it does not work. Are there any other ideas? I also see the point on the slip joint and it will be easier to install, I have done much research on this and it seems since it is at an angle, the steering shaft U joint should get driven down and the steering wheel should get forced forward in the event of an impact. Please correct me if I am wrong, safety is of the utmost.
     
  14. Aug 6, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    If safety is of the utmost, go with my original suggestion and find the whole intermediate column. These already have all the splined couplings and u-joints, firewall mounts, bearings, - everything! These are factory parts that fit and are safe when assembled properly.
    Cutting down your Ross inner column and grinding it to shape the fit your aftermarket u joint could be done, but then how are you going to hold it to the shaft, setscrews? The original is a spline with a pinchbolt clamping the joint together- safe! The lower column bearing takes a lot of force due to the loading placed on it by the direction change of the u jount. This is not a good place for a jerry-rigged bearing.
    You are going to do things your way, and good luck. I have done close to a dozen Saginaw steering swaps, and have figured out the easiest, quickest, and safest method is using the factory type setup.
    With the factory shaft between the upper column and steering box, it is made of two pieces where one slides (telescopes) in the other as a collapsable column.
    By using Intermediate CJ parts, the horn wiring can be used, or you can just clamp an aftermarket horn button on the side of the upper column within reach.
    -Donny
     
  15. Aug 8, 2018
    gibson-d@sbcglobal.net

    gibson-d@sbcglobal.net Member

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    For horn on Ross column I used parts from M38. 2 pieces a brass disc that is a tight fit on the steering shaft and sheet metal piece that screws to the column. Drill a hole above the brass disc so the contact can ride on it. Stock wiring fits the sheet metal piece. Rick Pewe showed me this on his flat fender. Bought the parts from a vendor at Bantamfest. Hope this helps.
     
  16. Aug 8, 2018
    chipdom

    chipdom Member

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    Thanks for the horn info, I am sure I will figure something out. As for the steering column I have searched for months to no avail, these seem to be scarce in my neck of the woods. I need to get this done and can not spend anymore time searching for the parts when I have ones I can make work. It has been done before. I went to get one from a later model cj5 but I could not see any metal through the rust. Metal does not last long here in the northeast. Thanks for your help, if I could have found good useable parts I would have gone that way.
     
  17. Aug 8, 2018
    Keys5a

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    There is a Postal Jeep specialist, maybe in Alabama?, that should have a surplus/takeoff column. I think a number of folks on this forum have gotten columns from there. Sorry, I don't have their name offhand.
    Maybe someone else has it?
    -Donny
    Edit; try "Postal Jeep Parts", Boaz, Alabama
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  18. Aug 10, 2018
    chipdom

    chipdom Member

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    I tried and he did not have any at the time.
     
  19. Aug 10, 2018
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    The postal columns are getting very tough to find.
     
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