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Jeep Brand (whitco Early 1970's) Soft Top Repair

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Wirework, Feb 12, 2017.

  1. Feb 12, 2017
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
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    542
    As a extension of our MD Juan tub kit / US NAVY theme rebuild of my 1969 Jeep, I plan to sew my own military style canvas soft top and standard bows.

    Something like this:

    [​IMG]

    But both because I didn't have any doors, and because I needed a soft top until I could make one... I went on Craigslist and bought a used Jeep-AMC brand Whitco soft top and bows from the early 1970's, very close to the year of my Jeep.

    My black leatherette Whitco top was fairly heavily used as evidenced by very brittle and deeply browned vinyl windows, by separated seams and broken zippers, and by a handful of rips in the fabric. The back window had more tape than vinyl.

    [​IMG]

    (Doors not shown, but included.)

    But the black surface was in pretty good shape (after a good cleaning), so I decided to get some soft top sewing practice, and repair it myself.

    This little post will follow along as I repair that Jeep AMC (Whitco) soft top.

    I have never sewed before so I checked out the internet for some instructions. Someone on earlyCJ5.com pointed me at sailrite.com wher I learned a lot right away. I soon learned that I might very quickly run up against the limits of my wife's 40 year old sewing machine, so I immediately got myself qualified on TechShop's industrial walking-foot sewing machines.

    I knew when I bought it that all the windows would need replacing. I decided it would be easier to do the sewing repair of the top if I took out the windows, so I simply pulled on them and their melted seam pulled apart.

    I bought some clear replacement vinyl via my brother Dan who does auto interior repair. It has arrived, and my MDJ tub kit project is wrapping up, so it's time to get going on this top repair.

    Here is where I am today:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    After tearing out the windows, I realized I had damaged the fabric side of the seam.

    [​IMG]


    To resolve the problem, I decided to make the windows 1/2" bigger all the way around and to sew binding all around the edge of the cut out in the fabric. That will move the seam out into good fabric and give me a good edge to attach the window vinyl to.

    So, I've started to lay out the old windows over the new clear window vinyl, with an additional 1/2" all the way around.

    [​IMG]


    And I've gone back and captured as many installation details as I can think of, and written them down on the old windows. That info includes zipper locations, perimeter length, major dimensions, and windows locations, etc

    [​IMG]

    That's about it for today. Next, I'll either make or buy edge binding and start attaching it to the raw fabric edges. At the same time, I'll repair the open seams and the rips.

    [​IMG]


    As I progress, I'll share the success, problems and solutions that make this fun to do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  2. Feb 13, 2017
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
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    Today my brother Dan offered black edge binding, black outdoor vinyl top leatherette (for patching and reinforcement), outdoor industrial grade/weight outdoor rated black thread, and the use of one of his industrial sewing machines. :) (I love having 7 brothers!!)

    'Hoping to get started one day this week.
     
    piffey263 likes this.
  3. Feb 16, 2017
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
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    542
    I got to start on repairing my Whitco soft top today in my brother Dan's auto reupholstering shop. He was away so the sewing machine was open. He offered me as much vinyl as I needed, "leather" binding, and the correct thread, and told me where to find it in his shop.

    Since I have not done this before I started small. I started with the doors. Other than the clouded windows, they actually we're in pretty good shape. The worst thing about them is the damage I did taking out the old vinyl windows. The original top had the vinyl windows heat pressed right into the vinyl and removing them meant separating the materials vinyl surface from the underlying cloth backing. If I had it to do again, I would have cut the window just inside the melted seam, and sewn the new window to the old seam.

    I took a piece of leatherette binding and tried it in the window cut out and on the clear vinyl. It will be a bit of work to make it all look good.

    The old door "leatherette" was sewn tightly around the old metal door frame. But the frame was rusty and unpainted. So, I removed the leatherette from the frame with a seam ripper. I painted the steel rods that make up the frame with black spray paint. My plan was to sew in the new clear windows, and then "simply" rewrap the vinyl leatherette edge back around the freshly painted frame and walk the sewing machine around the inside edge to capture the frame... just like it was before.

    Nada. Dan said to not even try it that way but instead to grab a roll of Velcro and sew it and the windows to the material before attempting to hang it on the frame. Apparently few sewing machines have the reach needed to hit the seams properly and Velcro is the standard way it is done.

    The first thing I did was add a 3x4 piece of new leatherette behind the existing material...

    [​IMG]

    ...as reinforcement where the handle shaft pokes through the fabric to reach a hole in a small metal plate welded into the door frame (to support the door latching handle hardware). The hole in the old fabric had worn a bit large but the new reinforcing fabric is likely not to be visible once the handle is reinstalled.

    Next I sewed in a few pieces of Velcro, first an 8"-10" run where the edge flap is wide enough to support it...

    [​IMG]

    ...and second a 5" run where the frame crosses an open area of the door and no sewn flap remains.

    [​IMG]

    I was stopped since the remaining door material edge was too short to support a strip of Velcro after wrapping around the frame rod.

    [​IMG]

    So I started adding strips of leatherette to widen the edge...

    [​IMG]

    ... until I ran out of time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  4. Feb 16, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
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    12,367
    Very impressive work and diligence in your efforts. I do have one concern you might want to consider. Sometimes tops that get stored can shrink if they get wet and don't dry out while installed, and then they won't fit good or maybe not at all. I made that mistake myself many years ago. Maybe getting to the point where you can install the top without the windows installed and getting a better picture of the fit is something to think about. You could at least see what it would take to pull the sides tight without distorting the window cutouts?
     
  5. Feb 17, 2017
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
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    542
    Hey, Glen. Thanks.

    My Jeep has been disassembled since before I picked this Whitco top up, so you're absolutely right. I don't have a clue how it's going to fit.

    Actually it is the top I was counting on to help me locate the supports on the MD Juan body build I'm doing. I'm to the point on that project that I'll soon need a top! Someone kindly sent me some Whitco top info but I don't recall it having bow bracket locations called out... besides, as you said the top might not fit now anyway.

    Having handled the (now) windowless top and doors, I can attest to their lack of integrity and strength; there is no way it can be tightly attached to the Jeep until it is sewed back together. However, the roof certainly could be simply draped over the bows after tucking the front edge into the windshield slot. That might give me a hint how I should expect it to fit.

    Back to plan "A".

    I really want to avoid drilling all these additional top mounting holes into my virgin MDJ body, so I have a mental picture of a new sub base to hold them utilizing the existing standard-bow socket (which we already welded in). I'm prepared to "alter" (i.e. cut, redrill) the Whitco bows as needed to get this (temporary) Whitco top to fit until I can make my own standard-bow top. This is probably a bit silly given the need for all those snaps to hold the Whitco top down. My only consolation is my ability to reuse the Whitco snap locations to also hold the (planned) standard-bow top down.

    And perhaps if the Whitco top is too tight, rather than modify the bows, I can pretty easily rip out the top's seams and move them, or add a bit of material as needed.

    We'll see!
     
  6. Feb 17, 2017
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Would the original Whitco top installations be of any use to you or do you already have them?
     
  7. Feb 17, 2017
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    That would be great, I don't have them.
     
  8. Feb 18, 2017
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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  9. Feb 18, 2017
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    :)

    Thanks!
     
  10. Feb 18, 2017
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    Today I talked to my brother Dan, the pro at this, (to thank him for sewing shop access and materials) and he asked me what I did and how I did it. Then he told to stop when he is in and talk to him before doing more...
    Oh, boy...

    He said is going to share some tricks of the trade so I can either get a better outcome, or so I get there a little faster. :) Whew!

    And to top it off, Dan said I can take home a walking foot industrial sewing machine (but no reverse). I feel awfully lucky to be in this family.

    Please remember in general I've just been making up an approach as I go... I'm wide open to another way (and likely a better way). I will not hold back telling you if I screw up, so you'll know what can go wrong and how I fell down?
     
  11. Feb 19, 2017
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

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    i noticed no back tacking on the beginning and end of your stitching, you need to run some backwards stitches at both ends or the stitching will unravel...btdt. keep up the good work.
     
  12. Feb 19, 2017
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    That is excellent advice. I may have missed one, but I did learn to do seams with a reverse at the start and stop. My photos probably aren't good enough to see it, and in one, I see I ran off the edge.

    When (brother) Dan offered to loan me the sewing machine without a "reverse" lever, I expressed concern about my seams unraveling at the start/stop... He said to just pick up the needle, lift the foot, index the fabric backwards and sew it again overy the seam I just made. It works functionally just as well a reverse seam, and he says you get used to doing it quickly.

    The bigger problem I had was with the initial sewing speed of the machine. Industrial sewing machines spin a flywheel all the time. In a car, you press on the clutch to disengage the engine. In an industrial sewing machine it is opposite; you depress the clutch to link the sewing mechanism to the already spinning flywheel. I've driven a car with a standard shift for 45+ years but that didn't prepare me for the sensitivity of Dan's sewing machine cluch. Wow... a foot movement I could barely feel took me from zero to 60 in 0.1 seconds. But Dan can get it to do a single stitch at a time! So it must be all about practice, like most things.

    Thanks again "sterclan" for the emphasis on the start/stop. It's important and necessary for a good sewing job.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  13. Feb 19, 2017
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

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    i think its awesome to do this stuff yourself, i just finished seats for mine with a treadle powered machine had to figure out the back tack myself, carry on
     
  14. Mar 16, 2017
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    My brother loaned me an industrial sewing machine for my Jeep top sewing project. I thought you guys might also like to see that machine coming together.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    That geared timing belt needs replacing.

    Industrial sewing machines have motors that run all the time. You use your foot to engage the motor with a clutch. Here is the motor... it weighs a ton!

    [​IMG]

    The loan also included the table. The motor is mounted on the bottom with connections to the clutch mechanism and a knee operated sewing foot lift mechanism.

    [​IMG]

    I want to fix this all up before using it.

    [​IMG]

    Bracket for knee lever (to lift sewing foot). Yikes!

    My wife didn't have to ask me to clean it up before taking it into the house... it has a lot of accumulated...err... history. Besides, it needs a few parts and some maintenance lov'in before I can sew with it.

    I have a lot of balks in the air at the moment. Please forgive in advance the pace of this project. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  15. May 2, 2017
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    I made just a bit of progress this week on my soft top repair. No, I didn't get the borrowed sewing machine running yet, (had to deal with a little medical detour for 6 weeks). Rather, I got some time on my brother's machine.

    I have troubled over how to deal with the shredded edge I left behind after tearing out the clouded windows which were melted into the door fabric; it is too damaged to take and hold a stitch to hold the new window to the door fabric. If I had cut the clear vinyl bigger, I could have overlapped the door enough to reach virgin material, but the shredded edge would have been visible through the window unless I covered it.

    [​IMG]

    My last idea was to overlap and sew a binding material to the edge of the new clear window vinyl. I chose a binding strip wide enough to hide the shredded edge of the door cut out and also reach deep enough onto the door surface to hold a stitch to hold the window to the door. But when I tried to fit the binding to the window, I couldn't shape the binding around the corners without it bunching up unacceptably. I had to abandon that idea.

    Yesterday I decided to try a different approach. I used the clear vinyl window (flipped over) as a template and traced it's edge contour onto the back of a scrap piece of black leatherette fabric. Then I traced a second contour offset about an inch to the "outside" of the first. Then I drew a third contour offset about 1/4" to the "inside of the first contour. Then I cut along the inside and outside contours to create a leatherette fabric strip that overlapped the window by 1/4" and the door buy about 1".

    I struggled to properly align the clear vinal window in the door cutout and then properly overlay the strip to hide the shredded edge (visible through the window). Imagine holding three pieces in exactly the right position and pushing them into a very fast industrial sewing machine. I was stumped until my brother Dan tossed me a roll of clear double sided adhesive tape. I'd go as far as saying it would be impossible to get this right without that tape.

    After applying tape to the strip, I aligned the window on the door, one edge at a time, and held it together with the tape and the new fabric strips. Here is how the first one turned out.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Not too shabby on an unfamiliar sewing machine, I think. Don't look too closely at the sticking, I should get better with practice.

    5 more windows to go.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  16. Jan 11, 2018
    Uncle Vin

    Uncle Vin Member 2022 Sponsor

    Long Island, New...
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    How did this turn out? All of the photos are gone.
     
  17. Nov 6, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Photos are back!!! :)
     
    timsresort and Rich M. like this.
  18. Nov 9, 2021
    Uncle Vin

    Uncle Vin Member 2022 Sponsor

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    You are doing well. Keep going.
     
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