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My CJ2A/3A/M38 +12"

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Streeetch, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. Nov 14, 2015
    Streeetch

    Streeetch New Member

    Rock Springs, WY
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    Thank you, sir! Do you have any experience with the block hugger headers from novak? I was trying to figure out what all I'll need to get my drivetrain bits together... buick 231 - SM420 - Dana 18. I figured I would probably rebuild the transmission and transfer case, considering the fact that I'll need to replace the main shaft in the trans anyways.

    I'm going to raise the front fenders up to meet the corner of the grill for tire clearance, the ones I've seen have extended the hood about 2", so that'll be nice to have a little extra clearance. I'm really going for this overall look:
    [​IMG]
    Man I love that thing!
     
  2. Nov 15, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Everyone loves Meisers "Rango". There are a lot of other ones like that. I saw one similar up at a 4x4 place north of Harrisburg PA. That one had Toyota axles.

    If you go with Advance Adapters kit for the sm420 to D18 you will need to replace the main shaft. If you go with Novaks kit, you do not. I have the Novak kit for my adapter. I would go with Novak for everything you can. They are friendly, helpful and knowledgable.

    I would also stay away from the sm420. Not because its not a great transmission, but because it had been out of production for over 45 years. Parts are available, but not as easy to find as sm465 ones. All Sm465 have a back up switch. Another transmission to look at is the t-18. I have no experience with it, but others really like it and it is a common swap. there is lots of info out there.

    If you are not putting a V8 in your rig, there is little advantage to lengthening the hood and fenders. There is plenty of room under the hood ,as it is, for a 231. My biggest problem with engine placement was the cj5 headers. I hate them, but there is a lot of work ,or a lot of money and work, to replace them.

    I have no experience with Novaks block hugger headers. Maybe I will soon if I can't make something work.
     
  3. Nov 16, 2015
    Streeetch

    Streeetch New Member

    Rock Springs, WY
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    Yeah novak seems like a good place, and they're somewhat local to me.

    The reasoning behind lengthening hood is not necessarily for room, but when you raise the fenders, that will extend them further out because they still have to meet the steps towards the rear... I guess I could cut the front portion of the step, if it wouldn't make them look silly. I guess when I get to that point I'll play around with them.
     
  4. Nov 16, 2015
    Streeetch

    Streeetch New Member

    Rock Springs, WY
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    Today's update:

    I felt like cutting some sheetmetal today...
    [​IMG]
    Keep in mind the doors will only be stretched 6" instead of the full 12" shown here; the other 6" will be right in front of the wheelwells.

    I also cut up a 2A tub for patch panels:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I didn't like cutting this tub all up, but I will definitely use everything I can off of it. I cut out the transmission hump, rear floor riser, and a section of load floor to patch the 3B tub. I think I'm going to just replace a small rusted out section on the driver's floor, instead of replacing the whole thing. The passenger floor is beyond help though...

    Has anybody has any dealings with walcks? Their stuff seems a lot more affordable than Kaiser-Willys, but how does it compare, quality-wise?

    I spent the evening stripping the grille, and I also got my front leaves mounted the rest of the way. I'll post more (better) pics tomorrow.
     
  5. Nov 16, 2015
    47v6

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    Walcks is great. Quality is at least as good as KW from the few parts I have purchased from either. KW has a much nicer paper parts catalog for sure.
     
  6. Nov 16, 2015
    Streeetch

    Streeetch New Member

    Rock Springs, WY
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    Yeah I've pretty much worn out my KW catalog thumbing through it!

    Anybody have some ideas on what to treat metal with that is really rusty, yet still usable, before welding? I've heard some toilet bowl cleaners may work if they have a high hydrogen chloride (?) Content. I don't want to grind it down to paper thin, then try to weld it.
     
  7. Nov 16, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    I believe there is only one or two manufactures left that build these aftermarket Jeep bodies , parts and components and both are in the Philippines. If your within driving distance I would take a ride and perhaps even a trailer and see first hand whether or not these components fit your needs. And regarding why Kaiser-Willys parts are more pricey may be that they have been known to take the original import stuff off the truck and massage it to look and fit much better.........they also encourage you to come and see there product prior to shipping.........Might not be a bad Idea!
     
  8. Nov 17, 2015
    47v6

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    High hydrogens means acid. Phosphoric acid is the active ingredient in rust converter. Toilet bowl cleaner has a mix of phosphoric and hydrochloric plus maybe other stuff. It seems to work very well as others have posted to remove rust. I am cheap, so I went an bought a gallon of concrete etch at home depot for 15 bucks that is straight phosphoric acid. I do not know the molar strength of it, but it works fine to convert heavy rust if soaked and remove lighter rust with a brush. Do not soak parts overnight as some sort of soap forms. There are people here who are very well versed in what that chemistry is. I am not that guy.

    Remember to wear heavy gloves, tyveks if you're spraying it, safety glasses and a NIOSH organic vapor cartage respirator rated for acid. I sprayed my entire body, making sure to get plenty in the seams. It worked very well to mitigate the rust. I had lots.

    Acid etch is what you need to spray on aluminum before primer to do a really good paint job BTW.
     
  9. Nov 17, 2015
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    The body parts from classic enterprises are top shelf and made in America the ones we bought were signed by the guy who made em​
     
  10. Nov 17, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Yep , Classic does an excellent job on the small sheet metal parts like body and floor braces , floor sheet metal panels , fender wells & body corners Etc.
     
  11. Nov 17, 2015
    Streeetch

    Streeetch New Member

    Rock Springs, WY
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    Thanks, guys... I'm torn about what to do, I spent probably three hours separating sheetmetal on the floor riser, and the metal is very heavily pitted in areas, especially around where the tool box was. I'd hate to get this all mocked up, only to have poor quality welds... especially when some of these panels are so affordable. Once I get the body all together it will be coated on both sides with some type of thick undercoating/rhino lining, etc. I could replace everything, minus the trans hump with new metal.

    I think while I ponder that, I'm going to order up my adapters to mock up my drivetrain. Our axle swap into the cj7 is going to happen this weekend, and I'll have my narrow D30 ready to go in.
     
  12. Nov 22, 2015
    Streeetch

    Streeetch New Member

    Rock Springs, WY
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    Thought I'd post an update... I finally just bit the bullet and ordered up most of my metal from Classic Enterprises... floor panels, riser, hat channels, and lower quarter/sides. Prices were just barely higher than Walcks, and I just know I've heard that name a lot more abs know that have a great reputation.

    We got the wide trac axles swapped into my brother's Jeep, giving me the narrow D30... I have to figure out a way to fish a broken leaf spring center pin out of one side, but other than that it just needs cleaned and painted.

    Last nite I dissected the rear part of the tub some more... removed the rest of the toolbox, and most of the riser panel. I also started repairing the rear floor where they modified it to fit the chassis it was sitting on.

    I also got my firewall marked for sectioning... LOL I should've got a picture of it, I actually used a Craftsman laser level to broadcast a straight line over the irregular surface of the firewall, herb marked it with a sharpie. Turned out pretty slick. I think I'm in for more than my fair share of sheetmetal welding... yay!
     
  13. Nov 30, 2015
    Streeetch

    Streeetch New Member

    Rock Springs, WY
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    Made some progress...

    I got the bed back in place, along with my riser panel.
    [​IMG]

    I think tomorrow I'm going to drag the M38 in and start gutting things off of it. Namely the transfer case... I want to start wrangling up my drivetrain bits and figuring out what I'm going to need.

    Here's a question, though... Advance Adapters makes the conversion bellhousing to go from buick v6 to SM420, but they don't appear to have a hydraulic clutch setup for it. Novak makes a hydraulic clutch kit that will fit on "GM bellhousings", so they say. I remember reading something about it working on the Advance Adapters small block bellhousings with some modifications. I just don't want to buy something that isn't compatible. I may just wind up calling the technical guys at Novak to get a definite answer.

    I wound up ordering my spring plates the other day, and figured I'd get the Advance Adapter brackets for the motor, so I could get free shipping. hopefully that will all be here on Wednesday.
     
  14. Dec 2, 2015
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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  15. Dec 2, 2015
    47v6

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    I have that hydraulic clutch slave with the bracket and adjustable T/O bearing. I havent even bolted it on yet to see if it fits. I would be VERY surprised if it didn't. It comes with the T/O lever too.

    Thats not your issue with the sm420 to buick v6 to d18. The bell housing bolts right up to the sm420 with some possible modifications.

    First, you need to drill out the bottom 2 bolts to mount the bell housing to transmission. The bolts go into the transmission from the inside of the bell. Second the shift rails on the sm420 will possibly need a recess cut into the top of the bell. Third, if you are using the stock dauntless flywheel.... you may have a real issue with the thickness of the flywheel, the input shaft splines and the inability to get the clutch to release.

    The thicker flywheel pushes the clutch friction disk hub against the rearmost splines of the clutch hub. To remedy this I put the clutch on my lathe and cut a recess in the hub itself to allow free movement and therefore release of he clutch friction disk.

    There is also mention of this occurring on T18's as well in at least one instance reported on a message board, maybe here.

    We are talking about maybe 3/32nds of an inch. there may be other ways to fix this problem. Possibly you could make a thin spacer plate to push the transmission back a bit. Do an initial fit up with these problems in mind, you may or may not have the same issues I had.

    The novak adapter for the sm420 to d18 is the most expensive part of this. It works fine. Well made and easy to install.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
  16. Dec 3, 2015
    Streeetch

    Streeetch New Member

    Rock Springs, WY
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    Problem is, I don't have a stock flywheel. The motor I'm using is from a car with an auto. Thanks for your input, I was reading the tech vault article on Novak's website... there's a lot involved in getting a clutch set up right.
     
  17. Dec 3, 2015
    Streeetch

    Streeetch New Member

    Rock Springs, WY
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    little update... haven't found the time to upload all my photos until now...

    I had quite the productive long change this week. after I got the rear floor/tub section squared away I decided to tackle the cowl sectioning... it turned out pretty well:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I found that these jeeps weren't made with the strictest quality control (i'm sure you all knew that by now)... the only thing I can't get to line up quite right is a 1" section at the very edge of the driver's side where it meets up with the fender line. it's only out about 1/4" or less, but it still bugs me. I haven't tacked anything up yet, because i'm still wrestling around with the idea of putting a 2a, 3a, or M38 dash in it... I really don't care for the single large gauge on the 3b dash (looks too AMC-ish), but I might just live with it.

    then yesterday, I decided my hand at the teardown of the D18 case from the M38. we stripped out the ford V8 and pulled the transmission/transfer case, and put it up on the bench. WHAT AN EXERCISE IN FRUSTRATION. NOTHING came apart easily, and after watching several youtube videos on these cases, I got it apart. I had to use the press on a couple of pieces that weren't supposed to require pressing. of course, the thing is about 63 years old, so I suppose some of that is to be expected. funny thing was, I was seconds away from just coming inside for the nite, before I remembered that pill-shaped interlock on the shift rods, and the rest of it basically just fell apart. so that motivated me to put everything in the solvent tank and start washing everything up. i'm going to order the master rebuild kit from novak, along with the SM420 rebuild kit and conversion pieces. I just can't wait to tear that transmission apart, i'm sure it will be frustrating as well.

    today I got my axles sort of hung in place after I cleaned up the garage. I can't wait to see what this looks like with some wheels and tires mocked up... if I could find something for the right price. I have my mind set on 35x12.50R15 BFG KO2s with some cool old looking wheels, like Ansen sprint wheels. i'd really like to find something that looked old WITH beadlocks.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I need to figure out what to do with this overdrive... it looks like it has the same PTO/overdrive kit that herm sells. I have no use for the PTO part, and just want the small aluminum cap that most of the ones I've seen have. and of course, the smaller shaft, too.

    if I remember, tomorrow im' going to call novak and talk with them about my drivetrain bits and make sure their hydraulic clutch setup will work with my conversion bellhousing. can't wait to start mocking up the drivetrain.

    I can't remember if I mentioned it or not, but I think I lucked out on one of these jeeps I bought. somebody already did a swinging pedal setup with power brakes at some point. hopefully i'll be able to use most of it. I guess the next thing i'm going to look out for are a LHD DJ steering column,
     
  18. Dec 3, 2015
    47v6

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    My engine came from an automatic as well. I got a dauntless flywheel and put it on. No vibrations or issues other than clutch hub/spline fitment. You might get a regular flywheel and bypass the mentioned issues.
     
  19. Dec 3, 2015
    Streeetch

    Streeetch New Member

    Rock Springs, WY
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    yeah I've been looking for one... unfortunately the jeep that I got my rear axle from was robbed of it's flywheel and bellhousing... dude said I could have it for $25, but was missing once I got there. i'd love to happen upon one, I wasn't aware that the 420 would bolt up to the stock housing.
     
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