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Let's talk about tires...

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by FlapJack, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. Jun 12, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Can you put a tape measure horizontally across one and get a diameter reading?
     
  2. Jun 12, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Have you considered NDT's? STA lists 6.50 and 7.00 x 16 inch tube type. It shows needing a 4.5" rim width and a 5.5" rim width for the 2 sizes, but of course that's what is recommend. I know 7.50 x 16's fit fine on a 5" rim, but not so great on a 4.5". I think M38A1's used 7.00 x 16 on a 4.5" rim.
     
  3. Jun 12, 2015
    FlapJack

    FlapJack Member

    Gray Summit Missouri
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    I have and am still considering NDT's. I guess now I need to take a tire off and measure my rim width.
     
  4. Jun 12, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    In case you didn't know rim width is measured inside bead to bead.
     
  5. Jun 12, 2015
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    I would think it is perhaps easier to use some straight edges and some arithmetic.
     
  6. Jun 12, 2015
    gunner

    gunner Member

    Washington state...
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    I recently took off the NDCCs and put on 215-85-16 radial ATs, 8 ply on my M38A1. There is a dramatic difference in ride and traction (and therefore safety) and the steering effort is easier. The radial 8 ply tires are much better riding than the 6 ply NDCCs and seem to have significantly less rolling resistance. NDCCs will probably work out for you OK, but after driving with the non directional for the last 5 years, I'd never put them back on again except for parades or sheer nostalgia.

    For the same price, you could get some mud and snow treads, which in my mind are more accurate for your jeep than non directionals.
     
  7. Jun 12, 2015
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I believe NDs are accurate for the period. My 1950 Willys-Overland jeep pickup had the original NDs on it, and my 'one owner' 1957 CJ5 still has the ND spare mounted.

    I do agree they are not great traction tires unless aired-down enough for center rib to retract, and then the side knuckles dig in.
     
  8. Jun 13, 2015
    1967 CJ5A

    1967 CJ5A Mike 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Raleigh, NC
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    My 7.00-15s are 29". But that is a 15" rim, I'm not sure if that makes a difference.
     
  9. Jun 13, 2015
    gunner

    gunner Member

    Washington state...
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    At the pick n pull, I grabbed the spare off a 57 Willys one ton. The wheel is what I wanted, but the tire was a 700-16 NDCC. No way of telling if it was original.

    The traction issue I was thinking of was street driving mostly. NDCCs can be ok in the dirt, but even then they start to disappoint in anything slick. I understand about airing down a tire for better traction, but I wonder if the OP is down for having to air his tires up every time he wheels for 1/2 hour. And on the street, they're justifiably infamous.


    Back in the day- 50s and 60s- anybody serious about traction would have ditched the non directionals and gone with one of the aggressive M&S treads. Probably the NDs were often cheap surplus tires that appealed to a lot of folks due solely to cost.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  10. Jun 13, 2015
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    NDT's are indeed (one of) the stock correct tires for 50's era CJs. The other main style offered was a Town & Country style tread.

    As for what else they were running in the 50's/ 60's there's plenty of videos on Youtube from that era showing a mix of NDT's & regular street tires (gotta dig the Whitewalls :)) being used off road quite successfully.

    I drove around in military vehicles for years riding on NDT's, apart from being useless on ice I don't recall them ever being particularly troublesome on or off road. That's not to say modern radials may not ride/drive better but as I grew up riding on bias plys we may be dealing with a case of " generational expectations" here.

    H.
     
  11. Jun 13, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    From what I've seen over the years I would expect NDT's to fit the original posters' needs fine.
     
  12. Jun 13, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Difference would be around another inch in diameter due to the inch difference in rim diameter. But I'm certainly no tire expert, and some of the measurements they list almost don't seem right.
     
  13. Jun 13, 2015
    Rondog

    Rondog just hangin' out

    Parker, CO
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    Pics and details of your tires, please?
     
  14. Jun 13, 2015
    gunner

    gunner Member

    Washington state...
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    "Generational expectations?" How old are you Howard? I'm 61 and got my first jeep in 1970. It had near bald bias ply H78-15s (could have been from the early 60s) and I used them to push or pull (no winch) everything from Broncos, Blazers, 4x4 trucks, cars- you name it out of sand and snow. I was around a lot of 4x4s in the deserts and mountains of San Diego County and remember only one rig with NDs- a buddy's jeep. Even aired down, he could not go where I took my jeep and I never worried about sliding off the road as he did. He only ran them because he was poor like me and Border Parts all butgave the things away.

    NDCCs are cool looking; they are correct and original. They are not efficient, safe or deliver good traction. YMMV. No tire does well on ice, but it's the other times of limited traction the NDs do poorly: snow, mud, wet pavement, wet grass, etc. I probably have 12 of them on hand- 5 with 0 miles mounted up and ready to go. They'll probably be sold now.

    I'm curious, what do you run on Tonka?
     
  15. Jun 13, 2015
    gunner

    gunner Member

    Washington state...
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    They are Yokohama Geolanders. Got them from Tire Rack. They deliver to your door. Pics are on their website. It is one of two 8 ply rated tires they sell in this size.

    There are plenty of 10 ply tires to choose from. I wanted 8 ply and the selection is limited, but it turns out the Yokohama was the tread I wanted, so it worked out ok. 'D" is 8 ply, "E" is 10 ply. I've seen other posts by guys who have used this tire size, along with 235-85-16s, but those were pretty much all 10 ply tires. It doesn't sound like they have complaints about the ride quality, but I figured 8 ply was plenty. The ride is fine- better than the NDs.

    The tire size is very close in height to the 700-16 NDCC- maybe a little taller than the ND and definitely wider. But still fits on the stock rim just fine. If you compare the two side by side (I did, but did not think to take a picture) you would immediately see the difference. The AT radial puts down much more rubber on the pavement. Yet, it's easier to turn; the NDCC wasn't bad, but the radial is easier (stock Ross steering). The rest of the comparisons, I already mentioned earlier in the thread.
     
  16. Jun 13, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I love radials. I had Denman ground hawgs, the equivalent of 31 1050x15s on my first 2a. Ross gear too. they were bias ply, wide and awesome looking. they were terrible to drive on both on and off road. On road because they flat spotted and off road because I couldn't turn the thing. I then put radials on it. still hard to turn. I then put on old dry rotted NDT's. it turned fine then. it was terrible off road and dangerous on road though. I now run 35 12.5x15 BFGoodrich AT's. I have power steering on my present 2A. There is so far nothing about this setup i don't love. Radials forever!
     
  17. Jun 13, 2015
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    57 :(

    I've got got the NDCC's on Tonk, haven't had a chance tp run them yet but again I spent a lot of time riding on them in the military running in the same sort of conditions the OP stated he'll be using them for & they performed quite well in that sort of situation.

    Are they the best for rock crawling/mud running/desert racing? No. But theres no such a thing as a tire that's best for doing all of those together.

    Will NDT's work for the stated purpose? I believe so.

    Let's agree to disagree on this one...

    H.
     
  18. Jun 13, 2015
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    There is truth in both points of view about NDTs.

    My own 'epiphany' was being trapped in a dead-end downhill area with NDTs, by just a few inches of snow.

    Couldn't get back up, or out. But I am sure Mud/Snow treads would have managed fine.
    Finally in desperation I let about half the air out of the NDTs. Drove up the hill like it had caterpilar tracks.

    My personal belief is the military expected NDTs to be dual-pupose. Highway tire at high pressure, mud tire at low pressure.
    Personally I don't use them because I am frequently on wet rocks, and the center rib slips too easy. And they wear really funny on pavement.

    FYI - All my various bias-ply 7.00x16 and 7.50x16 measure 30" diameter. Both traction tread and NDT.


    PS. I am 62, and driving the very jeep (among others) that I learned 'manual' on when I was 15. Never been jeepless in that time.
    (Drove a Model T when I was 10, and just took that same car out out yesterday.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  19. Jun 27, 2015
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I was going to comment on this thread but apparently I am not old enough to know anything.
    I'm 26
    I am an engineering tech for the equipment manufacturer of the largest food service franchise in the world. (So what?) (Big deal) (that's nice) ... that is my reaction to age here.
    I don't like one treating another different based on age race religion so on so forth. I want my son and dad to both be treated equally and with respect should they join this family friendly site. People will listen to those whome they have respect for don't try selling yourself or putting others down to be heard.
     
  20. Jun 27, 2015
    FlapJack

    FlapJack Member

    Gray Summit Missouri
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    Op here...

    Y'all are making it tough on me. Was just about to order the NDT's but now you have me reconsidering. I guess I'm just being stubborn as the only reason to go bias ply is for the look. I'm going to sit on it for another week or so...
     
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