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Pros and cons of Early vs Intermediate CJ5?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Ken4444, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. Mar 27, 2012
    Ken4444

    Ken4444 New Member

    Houston, TX.
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    Mar 23, 2012
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    Hello! I've spent the last 7 years over on Jeepforum.com and was referred over here after posting some thoughts about restoring and driving a CJ5.

    I'm very familiar with the basics of 80's CJs, but have little knowledge of the earlier variants.

    I love the clean, simple, and classic looks of the CJs from the 60's, and I'd love to own one. I need to try to narrow down my search.

    So, my question is this: What are the pros and cons of the early vs. intermediate CJ5's from the standpoint of repairing, driving, and just enjoying? It might all come down to what I can find when I'm ready to make a purchase. I see 1970's and 80's CJ's all the time for sale, but the earlier years? Not so much.
     
  2. Mar 30, 2012
    Ken4444

    Ken4444 New Member

    Houston, TX.
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    Mar 23, 2012
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    Okay, so here's a specific question: What are the pros and cons of the Dauntless over a 4 cylinder? Clearly it has more power, but what are the tradeoffs?
     
  3. Mar 30, 2012
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Not really any tradeoff IMO. The :v6: in just about the perfect engine for an early CJ. Lightweight, good power, and reliable.
     
  4. Mar 30, 2012
    JeffsJeep04

    JeffsJeep04 Member

    Menomonie, WI
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    Dauntless is early CJ, any intermediate is going to have one of the I6's or the 304. Dauntless is lighter and has twice the power of the F134, hard to say no to that. The hurricane has personality, and I don't find it terribly underpowered for doing jeep things but I'd much rather have the V6. There wernt any decent candidates when I was shopping.

    I think the intermidates have a lot going for them. Better brakes, saginaw steering from the factory, flanged D44's in the back, and dana 30's up front. That's probably what I'll be looking for for the next one.
     
  5. Mar 30, 2012
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    The intermediates inherently have a lot of the upgrades the early owners end up doing: better brakes, better steering, taller w/s for better visibility.

    I think it will come down to what you find, and how much pleasure you'd have owning something from the 50's or 60's than the 70's. There is a certain amount of fun in surprising someone when they ask what year it is and you give them a number that's at least a decade older than what they kinda expected.
     
  6. Mar 30, 2012
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    71 and earlier .81"WB 4cyl or V6 no power nothing . 72 thru 75 84"WB mostly the same .better steering and brakes. I6 or 304 . 76 thru 83 most like your present jeep. it comes down to what you want and like
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
  7. Mar 30, 2012
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Tulsa, OK
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    I grew up with a 71 cj5 (my current jeep) and a 72 cj5, 304, 3 speed. I love my 71, but I wish I still had the 72. The 71 does have more personality and more uniqueness, and the Dauntless has plenty of power, but in my opinion the 72 flat out performed better.
     
  8. Mar 30, 2012
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    Just remember, if you want speed (anything over 55 mph) then you don't want an early CJ.
    If you would rather look at the scenery you are driving through, then get the early CJ.

    My F-134 will do 55, though I do tend to stay at 50 or below. That is without an overdrive unit mounted behind the transfercase.
     
  9. Mar 30, 2012
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    When AMC bought Jeep from Kaiser in 1970, the CJ line was in sore need of modernization. In 1971, you could buy a CJ-5 that was nearly identical to the first CJ-5s sold in 1955. The major upgrades were few: the optional (!) Buick 225 V6 engine, bigger brakes, and some component changes - likely forced on Kaiser by their suppliers (rear axle, transmission). AMC took the existing CJs and modernized them quickly for the 1972 model and stretched the wheelbases and front clip to accomodate the excellent AMC inline 6s. Most of the modernization was accomplished by simply replacing dated components: engines, transmissions, transfer case, axles, steering, brakes.

    In 1976, the first all-AMC CJ was introduced, with the redesigned CJ-5 and new CJ-7. The CJ line stayed mostly unchanged until replaced by the Wrangler in 1987. So the late CJ had a long run, and parts availability is pretty good. The early CJs, from 1955 through '71, also had a long run, and parts support is also very good. The Intermediates however don't fare as well. Parts availability is likely their greatest drawback.

    You asked about the F134 "Hurricane" - it's an interesting engine, with the exhaust valve in the block and the intake valve in the cylinder head. The engine was developed as an upgrade to the older L134 "Go Devil" flathead engine, which was used in Jeeps during WWII and thereafter. The L134 has its roots in Willys engines developed in the 1930s. The F134 was created by adding the new and taller cylinder head to the L134, spawning a line of Jeeps with taller hoods: The CJ-3Bs and the CJ-5s/CJ-6s. The F134 is hugely undersquare, meaning it has a very long stroke compared to its bore. Thus the torque curve peaks at a very low RPM, yielding an engine that feels very strong at low speed, but is seriously down on top-end power. Modern 4-cylinder engines with similar displacements that have a shorter stroke produce much more power, but don't have the satisfying "tractor" feel of the F134. These engines are very sturdy, but they are a very old design, and not really suitable if you want to drive regularly at highway speeds. They just don't have the power to overcome the substantial wind resistance of a boxy Jeep at highway speeds.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
  10. Mar 30, 2012
    chuck123wapati

    chuck123wapati Member

    wyoming
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    I think its a car thing some like model A's some like ferraris the idea of which jeep is best is inconsiquential its what you want and enjoy. Many here do ground up resto's me I want a toy I can drive and play with ,go huntin fishin etc. Its up to you and what makes you smile when you hit the ignition. A fine little four banger is cooler than heck, so is a v6 oddfire.
     
  11. Mar 30, 2012
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Course you can be an oddball like me. I put the first 225 V6 in a '48 Willys in 1976 in our little family of jeep friends at the time. Once I heard that rumble, I have never looked back as my favorite. I may play with a newer motor once in a while, but mine is still that 225 (highly modified of course :) )
     
  12. Mar 30, 2012
    Texis

    Texis Member

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    My 57 is cool, but still not sure why I bought it?...I guess for the title since almost anything that was "57" is either gone, or in the process of being replaced. It shouldn't offend the purist because it was a rusted goner and if I had not grabbed it, the scrap man would have turned it into bean cans. I ended up using the D18, grill, hood, 1/2 the frame, windshield & front fenders....and the TITLE, lol.

    I wanted to keep the running gear, but the old ones are geared SO low that without an overdrive and a re-work on the steering linkage, they really are not highway vehicles and I need to make some short road trips. Mine had the 5.38s.

    The newer cj 5's extra few inches of front end makes V8 swaps MUCH easier and the closed knuckle front axle on the old ones means you only make really wide turns.

    I think it's exactly what has been stated.."what makes you smile". I do like the fact that my title & tailgate badge says "WILLYS"...:)
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
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  13. Mar 31, 2012
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    IMO one of the big advantages of the early CJ is the D18 transfer case-or more specifically, the ability to put a Warn/Saturn overdrive in the transfer case. My Jeep has a V6, 3 speed, 4.88 gears, and OD. This combo gives decent highway ability and good low range gears for off-roading (I'm getting ready to do a 4 speed swap for some REALLY low gears :D ). If I didn't have the overdrive, I'd have to run something like a 3.73-4.10 gears to have any highway ability, and then there goes your crawl ratio. Of course, there are ways to get some low gearing in the intermediates, like a truck type 4 speed and/or deeper low range gears.
     
  14. Mar 31, 2012
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    I prefer earlys because of the D18/OD and the 5.38 axles. Plus, I like to modify things. :D
     
  15. Mar 31, 2012
    MarkK

    MarkK Rita the Jeep

    S.E. Idaho
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    I learned to drive in a 69-70 jeep that was my Dads. I had many good memories in that Jeep. Hunting deer, looking over the ranch, spraying weeds, and just driving around.

    A good buddy of mine had one just like it, sitting in his shed with 32,000 orig miles on it. I asked if he ever wanted to sell it to give me a call. Well he needed some money for some bills and I had a Jeep.

    You can't beat the sound of that buick v6 coming out the side of the Jeep! It brings all those memories back and a Smile to my face:D
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012
  16. Mar 31, 2012
    MitsJ54

    MitsJ54 New Member

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    The early model Jeep with the Model 18 transfer case (this has the driveshaft outputs offset from the transmission input). This allows using the Warn overdrive which really creates versatilty in gear ratios and road speeds.
     
  17. Mar 31, 2012
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
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    the older it is the cooler it is-- :D
     
  18. Mar 31, 2012
    Hawk5274

    Hawk5274 Member

    Ohio
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    "Modern 4-cylinder engines with similar displacements that have a shorter stroke produce much more power, but don't have the satisfying "tractor" feel of the F134. These engines are very sturdy, but they are a very old design, and not really suitable if you want to drive regularly at highway speeds. They just don't have the power to overcome the substantial wind resistance of a boxy Jeep at highway speeds." TIMGR you are right on the money! That is why I drive mine because it is as close to a tractor as it can get...I do have a need to drive my old 56! I just go the country route if I am on a road!
     
  19. Mar 31, 2012
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
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    amen-- power comes on at 1000RPM-- by the time it hits 2000RPM, it's time to shift, again! :)

    thanks God for the Warn Overdrive!
     
  20. Mar 31, 2012
    jasonjp62

    jasonjp62 Member

    Pennsboro WV.
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    For me, I didn't get my JEEP to go fast. And I love the shorter wheel base, and shorter hood of the early JEEPS. And it's always great when people ask what year it is.
     
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