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1972 CJ-5 Almost Restoration

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by pritchaj2000, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. Jan 29, 2012
    pathkiller

    pathkiller Member

    Lorton, VA
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    878
    No need for a fancy bearing greaser, the palm of the hand method is tried and true for a hundred years or more. Bearing greasers are really only for people looking to keep their hands from getting greasy.
     
  2. Jan 29, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    I originally hoped that the grease would keep the hand soft, but between the diesel and lacker thiner it's not working. :(
     
  3. Jan 29, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    More engine updates to close out the weekend - I can't tell you how excited I am to have the engine back from the machinist.

    Lets start with the cam shaft. Nothing exciting there, standard grind - think OEM. But a couple of items I picked up from the AMC forum. When you replace the cam, and timing gear set, make sure the oil passages are clear, and the oil pass through on the timing gear aligns with the oil hole on the cam. Check the cam to make sure the hole is not blocked, and check the timing gear that the oil channel is well cut.

    Cam - oil hole at 11:00
    [​IMG]

    Timing Gear - Oil passage at 10:30 / 11:00. The notch at 6:00 needs to align with the oil hole on the cam.
    [​IMG]
    The passage in this gear was open, but very ruff. I took a round file and cleaned up the passage. This passage MUST align with the oil hole on the cam. Otherwise.... chainsawguy

    Cam installed - with timing gear all torqued up

    [​IMG]

    Now, on to the crank shaft.

    Bearings
    - all in place
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    [​IMG]

    #3 Bearing journal - Different from the others, it's used to manage crank shaft end play
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    A little plastigage
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    Lay in the crank - and torque to 100lb
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    And the result - just under .002
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    All the bearings came in just at or a hair under .002. Very happy, and the crank was turned .010

    Rear main seal - because everyone has issues with this part.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    They rather leak, or you get paranoid about installing. In my case it seemed to go rather smoothly. A little Joy soap smeared on the block marine surface. And some Permatex on the ears. You can see some of the Permitex squeezing out of the block.

    So that's it for the engine build for the weekend. The block is wrapped for the week. I'll pick up next saturday with piston install - .030 over by the way.

    O' one more thing!

    Valve covers - painted AMC metallic blue
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Oil Pan
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    :beer: time!
     
  4. Jan 31, 2012
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    Looking good. Really enjoying the details on the engine build up. Keep the pics and descriptions coming.
     
  5. Feb 1, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    I'll do my best Brian.

    As long as the venders start sending me my parts orders! g*# d@% it!

    Nothing worse than sitting around in the hope that a box of bolts and valve cover hold down washers show up wtlw
     
  6. Feb 6, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Got the bottom end all assembled this weekend - the machinist assembled the pistons and connecting rods. So it was just a matter of getting the pistons inserted and bolted up. The fun part is keeping the rings where you want them while the ring compressor is doing its thing. ;)

    Timing gears went on with out any issues. And then it was on with the heads. All bolted down and torqued to speck. Photos of progress....

    Clean Bearings
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    [​IMG]

    Double check the manual
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    All Assembled
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    Timing gear and chain installed
    [​IMG]
    Installed the timing gears with #1 at TDC, then rotated it a bit to get all the pistons below the deck for clean up and gasket install. Don't want any oil on the block where the gasket lays.

    Head Gasket
    [​IMG]
    Making sure TOP is facing up.....

    [​IMG]

    Now for the heads
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Had the shop do the valve and spring install. They are fully rebuilt, so good for another 40 years or so...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Just had to see...

    [​IMG]

    The bugger is working in a shop with a dirt floor, and parts saturated with oil. The continual feet of dropping a part and picking up some bit of rock or grit was driving me up the wall. Only managed to drop one nut - off to the parts washer and 15 minutes later was back on track.

    I also attempted to finish up the transmission rebuild on Sunday before the game. But my assistant was not cooperating.
    [​IMG]

    Seems I was occupying the only "good" sun beam" in the living room. And he mentioned something about not wanting to get Vaseline all over his paws trying to install all the needle bearings...
    [​IMG]

    I did damage to get the reverse idler gear and lower gear needle bearing installed and the shafts driven into the case. 1/2 way through assembling the gear cluster - I'll get picks during the next session...
     
  7. Feb 21, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    The long weekend was suppose to make up for not getting anything done last weekend. Didn't work out so well..... mehh

    The plan was to get the rest of the engine buttoned up, and painted. Figured 3 days was good for this; blast the intake and exhaust manifolds on Saturday and finnish off the top end. Sunday would see the timing cover, water pump and dipstick with a blast of primer. Then paint on Monday. If only plans worked out so well.

    Saturdays blasting of the intake and exhaust manifolds went well. A new blasting gun from McMasterCar with a ceramic tip solved the 'issues' with the old gun. And the parts came out looking good - pic of manifold further down.

    Then it was on to the timing cover alignment dowels. The PO had replaced the timing chain and cam a couple of years ago, and didn't bother dropping the oil pan when at the time. That means he had to cut the lower pin - not knowing that it could be removed. So a quick tap, and I threaded a bolt through a socket and puled out the pin. Replaced with 5/16 steel pin. Could have gone with a slightly shorter one, but I don't think the extra length will be a problem.

    Timing Cover Alignment Pin
    [​IMG]

    Next it was on to the Tappets. Injected oil into each, and installed in the block. Pushrods followed, starting at cylinder #1 and moving down the left bank of the engine. Double check pushrod for any material, install and inject with oil. Builders lube on all touching surfaces, and rocker arms installed. Went well, and moved along rather fast. Then came the 2nd bank - can you guess what happened? As I moved along, checking as I progressed, on the 2nd to last pushrod I found something inside. Spent the next 30 minutes trying to get it out; compressed air, carb cleaner, thin wire, shaking vigorously. Nothing worked. DAMN IT! It's after 4:00 at this point, and I have no hope of getting to the local parts store - the only one I trust is a local NAPA. They still use books along with the computers. And I'm always surprised at what parts they have in stock.

    Sunday morning, I'm at the parts store to order new push rods. They can get them, just not until Monday at 1:00. :cry: With that, my plans for the weekend were completely off the rails.

    Did manage to get the exhaust manifold painted. And on Monday the pushrods arrived. So it was time to push forward. Gave a good look at the new pushrods for objects in the barals, and straitness. Also checked the length against the originals. Re oiled the tappets and installed, pushrods in, and rocker arms torqued down.

    Valve Train
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Then it was on to the valley pan gasket. As an aside, when I buy a gasket I expect it to fit - perfectly. I don't expect it to come with directions on how to modify it with a razor blade. Because the manufacturer was to cheep to create a new mold for a part that fits. I also expect them to be accurate with the directions and model years that the modification applies to. (it was a long day so thats just my rant)

    Instructions
    [​IMG]
    Note that this only applies to 1966 - 69 engines..... They forgot to mention it also applies to 1972 engines.


    Forward Gasket - original
    [​IMG]




    Rear Gasket - original
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    Trimmed to Fit
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    [​IMG]

    And after that shaky process

    Reward
    [​IMG]




    Test Fitting the valley gasket
    [​IMG]

    Installed
    [​IMG]



    And completely out of light.... So next weekend I'll attempt to do the same think I attempted this weekend, finish off the engine. Until then I'm looking forward to a nice stress free work week - only 2 client presentations this week. :rofl:
     
  8. Feb 24, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Forgot to ask this last time. Are the two threaded holes at the front of the lifter valley suppose to be open, or blocked?

    [​IMG]

    The two oiler holed behind the cam gear are blocked, as are the two at the back of the engine. Plugs were installed by the machinist when they did the freeze plugs.

    And I don't see anything indicated in the Parts Manual drawings of the block. The outer plugs are illustrated, but nothing about these two.
     
  9. Feb 27, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Good progress over the weekend. Managed to get the engine finished up and painted. With what I think will turn out to be only one problem - seems I didn't get the dip stick aligned properly. And now I can't get it passed the splash plate in the oil pan.

    I think pictures are in order…

    Getting the oil pan on
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Assembled and ready for masking
    [​IMG]

    Masked and cleaned
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    This was the fun part. Used 2 cans of brake cleaner to get all the oil off, had to remark between each can. Didn't want to get the cleaner inside the engine.

    Primed
    [​IMG]

    Painted so blue
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    I think that deserves a reward

    [​IMG]

    Ordered 4 cans from the guy on eBay. And I'm glad I did. Took 2 cans to do the engine and valve covers, using all 4 cans. One of the cans kept clogging the spray nozzle with metal flake. So it was a continual rotation of nozzles in a cleaning bath then on a can and back again. In the end I'm very happy with the result.
    But next time I'll order the paint from east wood and use the gun. My finger tips are still sore from the spray cans.

    Parts starting to go on
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    Can you spot the problem? the dipstick won't go all the way in.

    And I'v decided not to use the HEI clone in the pictures. I guess I'v read one to many horror stories of bad alignment and hardened gears. So a DUI is on order to replace the one in the photos.
     
  10. Feb 27, 2012
    joshua70x7

    joshua70x7 Jeepoholic

    Colorado
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Great pics on the rebuild. I am about to do the same on a SBC for my 73 CJ5. Waiting (and waiting and waiting) on the machine shop. You have a great project going. I am enjoying following your build. Keep it up!:JEEP:
     
  11. Feb 27, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Thanks Joshua,

    I know how the waiting on the machine shop goes. I dropped the engine off the week P.A. closed and went hunting. That put a slight pause on them getting started....

    Best of luck on the SBC swap. Not sure I'm ready for that type of project. This is a lot easier - just follow the manual. Non of that "how do I make this work" type of questions...
     
  12. Mar 5, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Quick update from the weekend progress. Had to take 2 steps backwards to move forward, but the engine if sully assembled and ready to drop into the frame.

    With some luck that will be next weekends task. Going to recruit the wife to lend a hand, so she can see where all the time and money is going. ;)


    The other week I posted a picture of the lifter oil valley, and the 2 threaded openings at the top of the main oil galleys. Wondering if they were to be left open or blocked. Some digging around on the AMC forums answers the question. They must be blocked! Otherwise, bad things happen..... Ether the machine shop forgot to put them in, or the rebuild kit omitted them. Seems some of the master kits only come with 4 threaded plugs, not the 6 that the AMC engine needs. (2 behind the timing cover, 2 on the back end of the block next to the cam plug, and 2 in the lifter valley) If you find yourself with out these, and your local parts place doesn't have them. They are a GM part #444660.

    Make sure to install the 2 oil valley plugs
    [​IMG]
    They won't thread in all the way, just make sure you get them in as far as possible with some thread lock.

    So with that sorted, the a new valley pan was installed, and the intake toured on. And the rest of the parts are starting to find their way onto the engine.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I think the PO has made a bit of a hash out of the file lines. The line running from the pump to the carb seems right. But he had the line that ran from the tank to the pump run over the engine - the hard line that runs to the back of the block in the above photo. I think this line was originally the fuel return line from the pump. But I could not work out how he bent it, to get it back to original shape. The '74 parts manual has a drawing of the hard return line running back down to the pump, then back to the tank. Any one have a photo or illustration of for the '72? I'd like to go back to original.
     
  13. Mar 6, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Had a mid week day off before my next project starts. So got a little time in the workshop with the goal of getting the engine in the frame. Rented an engine hoist from Semcor, and started on the sage. Learned a couple of things along the way:
    1: find a friend - I suspect getting the block lined up to the engine mounts is a lot easier if one person works the hoist and the other positions the engine
    2: do this on a flat surface! The floor in the shop has a slight lean, and the hoist was a bit loose. So the hole thing leaned a lot to one side.

    In the end the engine is in, and the hoist is returned. Albeit with a slight lean, around 1 to 2 degrees to the left.

    [​IMG]


    Couple of mile stones so far

    February 12, 2011 - The restoration begins
    March 20, 2011 - Engine removed from frame
    March 6, 2012 - Engine returns to frame!


    Anyone have any recommendations for getting the engine level with the frame? I tried blocking up one side and lifting with the hoist. But it didn't help. One person - me - just doesn't have the strength to move an engine, or slide a chassis.
     
  14. Mar 6, 2012
    LXXIV_CJ

    LXXIV_CJ Member

    Manassas, VA
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    116
    Great progress Al! That looks really sharp.
     
  15. Mar 7, 2012
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    My way wouldn't help much... I built a Gantry Hoist for my shop that I roll around :)

    You may try to block the bottom and use a floor jack if your pan can take it and use that. Lock one side and work on one at a time.
     
  16. Mar 10, 2012
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    Looking great!
     
  17. Mar 11, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Thanks LXXIV_CJ
    Thanks Brian
    Having a blast doing this.


    @Warloch - Gave that a shot this weekend. Didn't do much… It helped a little when I had to pull the transmission to centerline - more on that in my next post. But it's still high on the right side. Probably about 1 to 2 deg, I suspect that i snot snuff to be an issue. I'll keep working on it.
     
  18. Mar 12, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Another big weekend. Got the transmission finished up, clutch, pressure plate and bell housing mounted. Along with the fly wheel - had to use a couple of bolts and a pro-bar to keep the engine from turning while everything was tourqued up. Since pictures do a far better job at describing the progress…


    T-15 : Transmission
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Very un-happy with the paint on the transmission and transfer case. It's slowly pealing off. I'll deal with that at a later time, I suspect it will get dropped blasted and repainted.


    New clutch and pressure plate
    [​IMG]


    And on with the bell housing
    [​IMG]


    Transmission and Transfer Case
    [​IMG]
    Was thinking that I managed to not get the mount on correctly. But both the parts illustrations and photos from this site lead me to be leave I got it right.




    With that out of the way, it's on to the tub. My wife and our neighbors came out to lend a hand, and the 4 of us had no issues getting it set on the frame.
    Lets start with the photos, and then the descriptions and a question.


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    A couple of notes about my experience with tub fitment. A lot has been posted about reproduction tubs, and issues that people have had. I have to say, my initial fitment was flawless. I ordered my tub from Willys Overland - along with 2 fenders and a rear cross bar. It came with a dash - no holes cut, so that will be up in the fore sale section at some point. But if you need one, and you're in NJ let me know. I'll take some detailed shots of the areas Willys "modified", so everyone can get an idea of what you are getting. So now on the the "you can install the tub in 45 minutes" claim by Willys.


    We placed the tub on the frame with a couple of planks set on the frame. Figured this would make it easier to get the rubber mounts in place. Dropped 2 bolts through the tub bed. They perfectly aligned with the original mounts. Two more bolts through the front most mounts in the engine compartment - again, perfect. All the other holes align with one exception, the rear cross member.


    The rear cross member is a replacement from the original, and if you look back in this thread you can find the posts on it's install. It was close, but not quite - all the pre drilled holes were just a little off. And it's the same with the tub to x-member mount. They are off a little. So I suspect a little welding and cutting will be in order.


    Is summary, I don't know of people have had similar experience with the non Willys worked over tubs. But I am very happy.


    Now, a couple of questions.


    Has anyone ordered the Totally Stainless kit for the cj5. The bolts that were included in the tub mounting group seem much shorter than what I need. I didn't get measurements on all of them, but only 2 were long enough to pass through the tub, body mount, frame and 2nd body mount. These were the longest two and I placed them in the bed of the tub. The remaining were just long enough to pass through the tub and one body mount. Would have been hard pressed to get a washer on after that. The body mounts I got were rather generic 1 inch pucks from Energy Suspension. I'm starting to rethink that purchase. Anyone have a recommendation for bolt lengths, and body mounts?


    This may be related to the body mount question. With the tub on, and settled on the mounts. I have very little room between the tub floor and the top of the transfer case. Is this a result of the repo tub? Or do I have the transmission cross member installed wrong? It is attached to the frame with 2 flat plate spacers on each side between the cross member and frame rail.


    Tub to Transfer Case Gap
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Mar 19, 2012
    pritchaj2000

    pritchaj2000 Member

    Highlands, NJ
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Another weekend - and more progress. It's starting to look like a Cj again.

    Spent Sunday getting the tub square and mounted along with the fenders, grill and hood. The grill and hood are original to the Jeep, the rest is re-pop. Overall still happy with the re-pop tub - seeing as nothing but the firewall was left of my original. And even that was showing a lot of rust.

    So no rust to deal with, but WOW a lot of banging and smoothing is in my future. The tub has a lot of work that will need to be done. But the fenders seem to be in good shape, so that makes me relatively happy. Just some body sealer needed in the internal seems to keep the rust at bay.

    Also ended up using the spacers that normally sit between the skid plate and transmission cross member, to lower the transmission and transfer case. With the spacer, and one of the plates it drops it a little low. So I think 3 of the normal plates, instead of two will drop the case low enough to not interfere with the tub.


    Now on to the photos...

    Original Gril
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    In rarely good shape. No rust, and no dents…

    Aftermarket Fenders
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    A little trimming was needed to clear the shock towers. Would think that by now they would have updated the die to get this right…

    Fender to Hood
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Not to bad of a gap. The other side was a bit wider, but some moving around made it better. Probably have another hour of fiddling to get the left and right gap to match.

    Hood to Cowl - This I am not happy about
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    The gap in the center is pronounced, and at the junction of cowl, fender and hood it is very tight. Any thought from people who have been down this road? I assume I could build up the gap with bondo, but I'd like to hear what others have done.


    All the Panels
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Mar 19, 2012
    joshua70x7

    joshua70x7 Jeepoholic

    Colorado
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Your build is looking great. You are a few ticks ahead of me but I should get my engine back from the machine shop on Friday of this week. I will have some fittiing, figuring and head scratching to do since I'm putting in a chevy v8 but this forum is crazy good for info. Keep up the good work. Your pics are awesome.
     
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