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Looking For Information In The Vin

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by Holty, Aug 28, 2020.

  1. Aug 28, 2020
    Holty

    Holty New Member

    Pa
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    I am curious to see what model my cj5 was from the factory.
    I see on part store applications it will list: Base, Renegade, Golden Eagle.
    The jeep was restored, so nothing showing model.
    It is a 1977 cj5, with 304, it has a 4-speed but a 3-speed would have been OEM.
    Will the vin tell me the model or is there a site for this info.
    Thanks
     
  2. Aug 28, 2020
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Tim is the late model guru . he'll clime in soon
     
  3. Aug 29, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    The only appearance package info on the VIN plate is the paint and trim numbers. There is no guarantee that paint and trim will tell you more, but they might. Paint codes are online; you'll probably need the factory parts book to decode the trim. The TSM has a figure that shows you where to find these on your VIN plate.

    There is no appearance package info in the VIN number. AFAIK this information was only found on the original invoice, and undoubtedly that all went into the dumpster 20+ years ago. The parts store sites could be asking you for the CJ-5 model because they are collecting info for their own marketing purposes. More likely, it's easier to make the customer enter this irrelevant info than for them to figure out that it does not apply to the application data they get from the manufacturers.

    A '77-79 CJ with a T-18 4-speed behind a 304 is only rumored to have existed. Some claim to have seen or owned them, but there's no other evidence in the books or pics of 4-speed VINs. My reading of the parts book does not positively indicate it ever existed (though the illustrations contradict the listings). If your VIN shows a 3-speed, that's what it was delivered with.

    A personal anecdote - when I bought my first CJ-6 new in 1975, the dealership I worked for offered to convert it to a T-18 4-speed. That could have been either the usual CJ close-ratio transmission or the J-truck granny-gear transmission. It would need a custom length rear driveshaft, but I believe everything else could have come off the parts department shelves. Quite a straightforward change. Something similar was clearly possible as long as the T-18 was still offered in the CJ (ie through 1979).
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
  4. Aug 29, 2020
    Holty

    Holty New Member

    Pa
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    I googled the models and some sites only say " If it has this or this it must be that" .
    For me, Its not the end of the world. Down the road I will paint my jeep but If it was truly
    a model with stripes or decals, I would do it. I painted one my CJ's 40 years ago and painted the stripes from a 79
    on and it looked great. That jeep was so problem free. Six cylinder 3 speed. We would put a milk crate between the seats and our daughter would sit there while we went everywhere. You would be shunned from society if you did that today.
    As for my 4 speed, I agree it had to come with a 3 speed. When I go into 4th gear , it falls on its face.
    I need to check gearing.
     
  5. Aug 29, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    You understand that the top gear of the 3-speed and the 4-speed are the same ratio? Standard axle ratio in 1977 was 3:54:1.
     
  6. Sep 5, 2020
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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  7. Sep 5, 2020
    W2SNO

    W2SNO New Member

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    That vin decoder is pretty useless. It says my 98 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited has an optional 4 cyl diesel...
     
  8. Sep 11, 2020
    Big_Rob2020

    Big_Rob2020 Member

    New Braunfels, TX
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    Hello fellow jeep fans. I'm in the middle of a frame off resto on my '71 CJ5, the PO put a diamond plate dash in and there is no telling where the original VIN plate went. I can't help but be curious about my VIN as well, can anyone help me out on manufacture date and or and other pertinent info that may be helpful?

    VIN: 8305017368588

    Thanks!!
     
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  9. Sep 11, 2020
    bigbendhiker

    bigbendhiker Member

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    According to this chart from JeepFan.com you have a CJ5, open body, universal, left hand drive, 225 V6 with emissions. The remaining digits are the sequential serial number.

    VIN Numbers for 1962 to 1971 Jeep

    Character
    1st & 2nd 57 = Universal
    81 = Universal CJ-3B
    83 = Universal CJ-5
    84 = Universal CJ-6
    85 = Universal DJ-6
    86 = Universal DJ-6
    87 = Jeepster C101 Chassis Code
    3rd & 4th 01 = Convertible (Jeepster)
    02 = Commando Convertible (Jeepster)
    04 = Fire Engine
    05 = Open Body
    10 = Open Body (Universal Diesel)
    22 = Tuxedo Park Mark IV
    23 = Fire Truck (Universal)
    34 = Open Body (Universal CJ-3B)
    54 = Open Body (Universal CJ-5)
    55 = Open Body (Universal CJ-5 Diesel)
    74 = Open Body (Universal CJ-6)
    75 = Open Body (Universal CJ-6 Diesel) Body Style
    5th A = V6-225
    C = Canadian Built
    F = Station Wagon (Jeepster)
    H = Pick-up (Jeepster)
    0 = Universal (Disregard)
    0 = Roadster Open Body (Jeepster)
    S = Smog (Universal)
    8 = Universal Body Style – Special Model Code
    6th 1 = Left Hand Drive
    2 = Right Hand Drive
    3 = LDH California, Fuel Evap Control Drive Code
    7th 4 = F4-134 without Emission
    5 = F4-134 with Emission
    6 = V6-225 without Emission
    7 = V6-225 with Emission Engine Code
    8th – 13th ###### SSN
    (Sequential Serial Number)
     
  10. Sep 11, 2020
    Big_Rob2020

    Big_Rob2020 Member

    New Braunfels, TX
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    Hey Scott Thanks for that! . I did find some information on the sequential numbers and for some reason there are "lost years" between 68-71 where they don't specify the manufacture month just the round about year. From what I can tell I have a CJ5 that was manufactured in October of 1970. So does that make it still a Kaiser jeep or is it AMC?
     
  11. Sep 11, 2020
    Zoomer

    Zoomer eJeeper (walking)

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    Pretty sure AMC purchase of Kaiser Jeep was completed early 1970. Your Jeep should have the rear mounted fuel tank as well as fender mounted marker lights.
     
  12. Sep 11, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Don't know whether this matches the sale to AMC exactly, but AMC started putting a small R/W/B logo badge on the tailgate. Likely the black-and-yellow VIN sticker on the dash changed to AMC style, and I expect the metal VIN badge under the hood changed. All these could be easily added changes at the take-over. Looking at the '72 TSM, the badges just said "Jeep Corporation," no mention of AMC or Kaiser. Pretty sure the previous versions say "Kaiser Jeep."
     
  13. Sep 11, 2020
    Big_Rob2020

    Big_Rob2020 Member

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    so yes mine does have the tank in the rear and the side marker lights. Its hard to tell what ID plates or markings I have. The PO had the bed liner on the fire wall, inside the tub, and a diamond plate dash all the original tags are gone, but I was able to match my sequence number to the VIN on the title from the frame rail. I'm just interested to know when this jeep rolled off the assembly line simply for the fact that I will have to have all of the Identification plates reproduced.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  14. Sep 11, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    I'm sure the rear tank and side markers changes were already underway when AMC took over. These changes were mandated by evolving safety regulations, and not related to any ownership change. I'd pick away some at the firewall to see if the VIN plate is buried there. I recall bed liner can be softened with brake fluid; a powerful solvent like brake cleaner or carburetor cleaner will likely soften and eat it away. Aircraft paint remover? Nasty stuff but very likely effective. Plain acetone or lacquer thinner in a spray bottle may be sufficient. Apply, scrub and repeat.

    72CJVINPlate.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  15. Sep 11, 2020
    Alan28

    Alan28 Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor

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  16. Sep 11, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    VIN, not vin! :clap:
     
  17. Sep 12, 2020
    Keys5a

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    It was always my assumption that the Kaiser built Jeeps ran into the '71 model year, even though technically AMC owned the Jeep name from 1970. The real re-engineered "AMC" Jeeps came with the longer front sheetmetal to accomodate the I-6 engines for the '72 model year.
    Yes, some later '71 models got an AMC logo on the tail panel, but they were essentially still built as the Kaiser owned models preceding the purchase. Some of these later short Jeeps also had the "Kaiser Jeep Corporation" dropped on the serial plate and dash sticker to read "Jeep Corporation". Does anyone know what serial number the Kaiser name was finally dropped?
    To me, this would be a defining break for the end of the Kaiser Jeeps. Some of our Rennegade ll owners are probably have the answer to my question.
    -Donny
     
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  18. Sep 12, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Donny, you are correct that the first actual AMC make-over happened for the 1972 model year. You could call the '70s and '71s Kaiser Jeeps, but I think that would be something of a difference without a distinction, as they say. Since (I presume) AMC bought the whole kit and caboodle of Jeep, I suspect there wasn't much of a change at the official turnover. The workers kept building them using the same designs and company assets. True we have '71 owners here with the little AMC badge on the tailgate. Pretty sure that was a piece from AMC car parts bin that could be applied immediately - AMC could have had these parts ready and on-site even before the official day. This was a friendly takeover and I can't imagine Kaiser would have blocked any preparation. Sorry, no personal experience from '70 and '71 - I was too young then.

    Suggest this thread be broken off and given a descriptive title? Might attract the attention of some of the '70-71 owners?
     
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  19. Sep 12, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    To the original question, there are dates on some of the parts as I recall. Not certain how to read them, but the axles for example have build dates stamped into them. The engine likely does too. These must pre-date the build date of the Jeep, and near certain close. These companies plan their needs (even Jeep!) and don't let parts sit around that aren't specifically for parts stock.
     
  20. Sep 12, 2020
    bigbendhiker

    bigbendhiker Member

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    This link has some examples of serial numbers from 1967 to 1971. Go to page 7 on the pdf. Not surprisingly the info came from this site.
     
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