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Lost 3rd Gear? T-14

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Buildflycrash, Mar 10, 2020.

  1. Mar 10, 2020
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    I'm sure its still in there but I cant find it!! Stock V6 and T-14 transmission

    Last week it all worked fine. Then one day it's hard to get into gear and popping out. The next day it will not drop in 3rd gear and grinds when I let off clutch. It kind of feels like the shift mechanism is just not reaching all the way to push into 3rd gear. I didn't think it would help (it didn't) but I did check/fill the gear oil and it was only down a very little (normal leakage).

    What do y'all think?

    Second question (maybe unrelated) : What is the opinion of shifting without depressing the clutch? I'm just talking about pushing the stick to neutral when rolling to a stop. Not going up thru the gears, most of us can do this but its lots easier to just use the clutch. I sometimes down shift to first while rolling to a stop, just hold a little pressure and when the gears align perfectly it just slips in (that's what she said). Has pushing the stick to neutral from 3rd damaged my transmission?

    Thanks for your thoughts/replies.
     
  2. Mar 10, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    You need to take the top off and look. One thing I could imagine is the pocket bearing in the input gear has disintegrated, and the resulting misalignment between the main shaft and the input shaft prevents the synchro collar from locking the two together. Or it might be something like a broken pin in the shift top.

    From any gear to neutral is completely harmless, if it takes no force on the shifter. First in a T-14 is synchro, so the blocking ring is acting like a clutch between the main shaft and first gear (otherwise freely spinning on the main shaft) when you shift from neutral to 1st. It will resist shifting until the speeds line up. You should use the clutch into 1st, since the blocking ring tries to make the speeds line up by friction. That friction wears away the blocking rings.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  3. Mar 10, 2020
    Twin2

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    yep take top off and look . might have broke shifting fork
    not that hard when your able to remove whole floor . best jeep design ever
     
  4. Mar 10, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    This was my first thought also. I had a Saginaw 4-speed with an Advance Adapters kit in it where the rollers ate the AA main shaft tip. I had to tear it down every 10k miles or so to have it built back up with weld and machined back down. Without it being hardened, the fix didn’t last long each time, but I was on a zero-budget.
     
  5. Mar 11, 2020
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I took the cover off this morning. Things inside look and feel good (just tried to shake stuff around).

    [​IMG]


    Only thing I see that may be an issue is the hard plastic on the shift fork is worn off in only one spot. When driving I felt the shift was just not "reaching" into 3rd.....


    [​IMG]


    See anything wrong here?


    [​IMG]


    Is the plastic part on the shift fork available for a replacement part??
     
  6. Mar 11, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    You can shift the gears by hand. Just move one of the collars at a time (that's what the shift top does). Third gear shift moves the front collar forward to connect the input gear with the main shaft, providing a 1:1 ratio. You can also shift the top and watch the forks move back and forth.
     
  7. Mar 11, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    In neutral, pull up/shake side-to-side on the 2nd/3rd shift collar. See if the main shaft has play in comparison to (at) the main drive gear. If there’s any play at all at that junction, there’s wear in that bearing surface.

    I hope for your sake it’s just that shoe! Nothing’s ever that easy for me. :)
     
  8. Mar 11, 2020
    Keys5a

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    Everything looks OK except the plastic on the end of the shift fork. That was molded on, and I believe requires replacing the whole fork. Probably easier to replace the complete shifter top from another T14.
    I'm suprised that missing the wear surface on one side of the fork would keep the trans from going into gear, but that looks like it could be the cause.
    -Donny
     
  9. Mar 11, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    If the pocket bearing is gone, I would expect you can push down on the main shaft and then sliding the 2-3 collar forward from neutral would be blocked.
     
  10. Mar 11, 2020
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I took it apart on my way out the door this morning - trying to not get dirty before work. I'll push the collars around more this afternoon and report back tonight.
     
  11. Mar 11, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    So what is this?

    T14shiftop.png

    That's the front, right? Does the fork slide on the rod?

    Maybe that's just the area that's not wiped by the shift top.

    Crown makes replacement shift forks, if that's the problem. T14 Replacement Parts ('67-'75) | Quadratec
     
  12. Mar 11, 2020
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    The wear on the shift fork is caused by resting your hand on the shift lever while driving.

    Yes check to make sure the shift fork is not loose on the rod.
     
  13. Mar 11, 2020
    Buildflycrash

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    Tim, the fork from QuadraTec look different and is for '67-75 (I'm a '66)

    upload_2020-3-11_11-43-53.png



    Morris seems to have the fork but without the plastic boot.

    upload_2020-3-11_11-38-46.png
     
  14. Mar 11, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    '66 should have a T-86, AFAIK. T-14 came later. Not sure how much later, but '66 was the first year for the factory 225, so I'd expect that year to have the earliest transmission type.
     
  15. Mar 11, 2020
    Richard in AZ

    Richard in AZ I just don't understand the like of patina

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    I have a 66 and a 70 model both V6 powered.....easy to tell the 66 has a T-86 cause first is sycno on the T-14 and not on the 66....

    Richard
     
  16. Mar 11, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Picture above is definitely a T-14 and not a T-86. Just pointing this out, because the parts listing from Crown won't include 1966 because there were no T-14s in 1966. The T-14 was also the standard transmission for Wagoneers and J-trucks with the 232 and 258 starting in 1967.

    My book says you want the 948990 for a floor shifting T-14. Apparently there were side shift (column shift) examples too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
  17. Mar 11, 2020
    Buildflycrash

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    I always just assumed it was the original transmission. It seems I did order the correct part Tim mentioned #948990. Thanks for the replies. I'll keep y'all updated.
     
  18. Mar 11, 2020
    Twin2

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    went out to garage to look
    T 14.JPG
     
  19. Mar 11, 2020
    Jw60

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    I know it's hard to judge from a picture but that 3rd gear blocking ring looks like it has a mile of play? Have the input or mainshaft been replaced and is there any play on the mainshaft front to back or side to side?
     
  20. Mar 11, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Before I bought an imported replacement fork..... I would Rough up that fork with 36 grit, clean throughly and build the pad up with jb weld.....
     
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