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OldironWcj5
08-08-2008, 05:52 PM
Jeeps a 1959 CJ5 Willys, engine is a 134 "F" head. Orderd a rear main seal - received a felt pro# BS3165 , rope seal type. engine apart rear main seal is not a rope type but a newer design with a metal backing, parts people thank it may be a Victor's #JV 687. Any of Y'all got any ideas??
Victor is a sub for the rope the rope will still work?
Rope Vs. Victor which is better??
Thanks for the help
Rusty

Don X
08-08-2008, 06:03 PM
Rusty, not sure of your specific question but the stock engine should be an f-head not an L-head. Don't know if t hat would make a difference in the part.

OldironWcj5
08-08-2008, 06:36 PM
My typo your are right F not L

timgr
08-08-2008, 06:44 PM
Rubber seal is better IMO. Rope seal is cheap but a PITB to install with the crank in place. Can't put a rope seal in backwards though - that may be one advantage.

OldironWcj5
08-08-2008, 09:57 PM
Rubber seal is better IMO. Rope seal is cheap but a PITB to install with the crank in place. Can't put a rope seal in backwards though - that may be one advantage.

Rubber seal in backwards, - Old one may have been in backwards leaking bad. tell me the lip of the seal is it out to clutch side or inboard to sling ring on crank??
Thanks Rusty

timgr
08-09-2008, 09:04 AM
Not sure from your description if the present seal is backwards or not. The lip of the seal points inward, toward the oil, so that any oil pressure pushes it tighter against the crank. The new seal has instructions on the box, at least the Felpro ones do.

Homebrew2
08-09-2008, 07:35 PM
Does anyone have a part # for the rubber seal and, for that matter the rubber valve cover seal for the f head?

Homebrew2
08-21-2008, 09:40 PM
... The new seal has instructions on the box, at least the Felpro ones do.

Do you happen to have a Felpro # for the rubber main seal ?

kiowamtp
08-22-2008, 02:59 PM
Definitely use a Felpro brand. I am not sure of the part number, but I got mine at Checkers auto for 18.00. If I remember right I had to reference a 1970 or so JEEP to be able to have them look it up in their computer. Any JEEP with a F134 will do. JUst have to keep bugging them. It consists of two rubber dowel looking pieces and the two half moon seals (no rope seal). BTW do not trim/cut the rubber dowel seals as they are supposed to protrude and compress.

Homebrew2
08-25-2008, 12:43 PM
Great! Thanks much.

53WillysM38A1
04-10-2009, 04:47 PM
Update.

Felpro part# BS3165 is now a Rope type seal. I ordered it twice last week from a local parts store and both times a rope seal arrived. I even called Felpro. Rope seal only for this part#...if that wasn't bad enough, they guy told me that they have always made the rope for this part number and never had a lip type seal for this engine. Hmmm what a genius. I know I ordered one just a little over 2 years and it was the wide lip seal. Now I have 2 short rope types to squeeze in and hope they seal up where they meet. I also got a Sneaky Pete for another $32.

timgr
04-10-2009, 07:59 PM
If you are still messing with this, I'd advise you seek out the molded rubber seal. Try a different parts store, or maybe give one of the Jeep specialist places a call, like Walck's or Turner. You can do the sneaky pete thing if you really want to, but I think your parts store is not working very hard for your money, and you can do better with the rubber seal.

jglad
04-10-2009, 10:00 PM
I ran into the same thing this winter when I rebuilt my engine. Felpro no longer had the rubber type seal, only the rope type. The rope seal seems to be doing ok in the engine.

53WillysM38A1
04-11-2009, 10:49 PM
I'm going to try it this weekend. I have the bearing cap off, the other 2 loosened and picked up the sneaky pete today. I hope I can get it in there with the crank still in place. I found several mistakes that the machine shop did when they put it back together. First I noticed that they put gasket sealer on the flat surface where the cap meets the block. Then the dowls had no sealer in the holes and no sealer where the 2 halves meet. It was starting to leak pretty bad and I only now have 180miles on my frame off resto (complete rebuild). I should have put the engine back together myself after they did the machine work. Wish me luck with the rope seal. If it doesn't work out, I'll be pulling the motor.

kiowamtp
04-11-2009, 10:55 PM
Wow, I would think they would cover their work if you only have 180 miles on that engine and already in it. Good luck.

jeeper50
04-11-2009, 11:06 PM
Read this link; this guy had major problems with the molded seal. The rope maybe a PITA to install but it won't cause bearing failure

http://earlycj5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62849&highlight=rear+main+seal+failure

53WillysM38A1
04-11-2009, 11:15 PM
They would, if i wanted to pull the motor and bring it to them and hope they don't mess anything else up. I've had one hell of a time with them already. Had to pull the motor and bring it back to them right after I installed it since I had no compression...they accidentally put the L-head head gasket in.

Obsidian8
07-14-2009, 11:56 AM
Hey 53Willy's, how did the sneaky pete work for you? I have a 55 m38a1 and I already tried installing 3 rear seals before I found the threads refering that the crankshafts were the problem and some were too big. Since I dont have the $ right now to have it machined down to .230 Im gonna use the sneaky pete and felt pro seals, waiting on the tool so i can start. So any tips from anyone who's used a sneaky pete, it would be really great since im already annoyed with this issue

53WillysM38A1
07-15-2009, 11:22 AM
So far, so good. I've put around 120miles on it and no more puddles. The sneaky pete was a little tricky and slipped off 3 times but once I placed the correct amount of rope in it, everything worked out. I was concerned about having too much rope in the tool and not being able to get the tool off the rope without over pulling the rope. It was also a little tough trying to get a razor knife close enough to the crank to cut the excess off but I was able to do it with a little time and patience.

Happy with results so far...oh and no more synthetics, 15-40 Rotella only.

53WillysM38A1
07-15-2009, 11:15 PM
The Victor seals are not a true lipped seal and are much thinner than the old Felpro lipped seal was. The Victor seals may still be available but I know for a fact that Felpro no longer produces the rubber seal.

unclebill
07-17-2009, 07:40 PM
quick question
what is a sneaky pete?

timgr
07-17-2009, 10:17 PM
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/kdt492.html

Obsidian8
07-18-2009, 08:33 AM
A word on the Sneaky Pete...I decided to buy a similar tool, the one with the chineese finger on the end. It worked fine until the seal was almost all the way through befor it slipped...so its not slip free!! ha! Anywho i was able to drive a wood staple through the end hooking the seal in there and it worked fine. my rope seal is isntalled. like m38a1 said, it will take time and patience...busted a few knuckles cutting the ends of the seal. so far no leaks but its only been on there since yesterday so I will be driving my m38a1 around and see what happens. great tool and it beats taking the engine and crank out. worth the money

53WillysM38A1
07-18-2009, 11:05 PM
As timgr posted, the sneaky pete by KD Tools is the one I purchased and the chinese finger tool can work great as long as you have enough rope into the chinese fingers for it to grab. It also helps to "help" the chinese fingers by squeezing them close tight around the rope before pulling it over the crank so that it doesn't have the chance to slip out because once it goes over the crank it will be a very tight fight (even if you have loosened all your bearing caps) and this will aid in the chinese fingers holding on to the rope.

The chinese fingers are a very common tool for electricians that work in the industrial field. I was first introduced to them 13yrs ago when I was an electrician in the chemical plants. We used them for pulling wire through pipes and cable tray racks all the time.